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Author | Topic: Hyperbole in the Bible | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
purpledawn Member (Idle past 3486 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined:
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quote:Why do you feel they aren't clearly hyperbole? People don't seem to have a problem recognizing hyperbole in writings classified as nonfiction, but apparently do in more creative works.
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3486 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined:
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quote:The writer has set up the basis for the story. The Superman character is from another planet and it has already been provided in the story that he has different abilities on planet Earth. The Noah story doesn't have such a setup. Now I can see why we have difficulty reading some Bible stories as we do other stories. The Noah story potentially had three authors over time. We may have lost the storytellers setup for the story.
quote:What is it with you people? I didn't require you to prove anything. You said you disagreed but did provide any reasoning for me to agree or disagree with. Am I supposed to guess which one you disagreed with and why? You guys seem to have some underlying issue you want me to address and I don't know what it is. I provided my position in the OP
Many times we have examined the accuracy and inerrancy of Bible passages, but how many were simply exaggerations? Although I dislike apologetics, I would like to look at various passages considered by some to be contradictions or absolute statements and see if hyperbole comes into play. and I've provided links and reasoning for why I feel the verses I shared could be hyperbole.
quote:Not really a reasonable comparison. As I said earlier, the author provided a setup in the Superman story. Some authors prepare entire back stories for their characters even though those details don't make it into the story. This helps them stay true to the characters personality throughout the story and is helpful when there are many characters in a story. They want us to see the characters as real within the story. Unless the author sets up the basis for us to view a character as something different than what we know, we go with the norm. I already conceded in Message 22 that the exaggerated ages, since they were probably added by the Redactor later, probably wouldn't be typical hyperbole. Noah's age doesn't really add anything to the story. The Redactor had his purpose, but it doesn't seem to be an exaggeration to impact the story.
quote:Why assume it was viewed in isolation? As for Paul Bunyan, I can't address the actual sentence you're thinking of, but there is hyperbole in them tall tales also.
IOW, he's a very big man. The tall tales got taller over time. The idea that Paul's dragging axe could create the Grand Canyon is another exaggeration of how big he was. Flood stories can develop the same way. We don't know how long the stories were told orally before they were put to paper.
Jewish Legends I have shown support that hyperbole can be used in fictional works and I've shown examples of hyperbole in fictional works. Deeming a work fiction does not negate hyperbole within the story. Edited by purpledawn, : Added link
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3486 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined:
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quote:There's nothing to tell us that we should view the humans in the story as different from ourselves, IMO. So the ages would be viewed as exaggerations, IMO. quote:And I didn't imply that it did. That's why I said in the OP: I would like to look at various passages considered by some to be contradictions or absolute statements and see if hyperbole comes into play. I haven't declared that all contradictions are absolutely hyperbole. I only listed a few to start the debate. We're looking for hyperbole in the Bible. We would have to actually look at verses in stories to determine what if any literary device is being used. quote:The idea that there is hyperbole in the Paul Bunyan story is not deemed so on my authority. I provided links to support that conclusion and here is another. Mrs. Dowling's Literature Terms Hyperbole is common in tall tales. Here is an example: At three weeks, Paul Bunyan got his family into a bit of trouble kicking around his little tootsies and knocking down something like four miles of standing timber. Edited by purpledawn, : Fixed link
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3486 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined:
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Since you feel that I still haven't addressed your point, I apparently still don't know what your point is. Sorry.
Edited by purpledawn, : Fixed typo
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3486 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined:
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quote:Yes, the grasshopper reference is a good hyperbole. As for Paul Bunyan, I provided links that deal with hyperbole in tall tales. quote:I understand that hyperbole is exaggeration for effect or to make a point. As I've shown with links hyperbole can be obvious or subtle. Genesis 6:5 is an exaggeration to make the point that those were bad times.
The LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. We compare against our reality and all humans don't literally have evil thoughts 24/7. After the flood God still considered the humans who survived to still have the evil inclination. Mankind didn't change, and the Bible tells of righteous people.
quote:Yes there is a lot of exaggeration in the language, that's why we have to be careful what we deem literal. We don't seem to have difficulty recognizing the ones with the obvious format.
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3486 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined:
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quote:Hyperbole is a type of figurative language. This is a way to use words to enable the audience to create an image in their mind. To do this the storyteller has to keep to what his audience will understand. For an audience to understand an exaggeration, it has to be exaggerating the reality that they know. We aren't comparing myths or fiction to reality. We are comparing the wording used in the sentence to convey the image to the audience, to reality. We have to look at what is written. Declaring a story to be myth or fiction does not mean there are no hyperbolic statements in the story. We don't differentiate between myth and hyperbole. Myth is a classification and hyperbole is a literary device. I have provided plenty of links in this thread supporting the various shades of hyperbole and that hyperbole can be found in many genres. I have yet to see any outside support for the mystifying statements of my opposition. If you disagree that a verse I've shared is hyperbole, then explain why you feel it doesn't fit the bill and provide support for your conclusion. Don't pick Noah's age because I've already yielded on that one twice.
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3486 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:Actually I don't feel that anyone has. The issue with Noah's age, which I yielded on, is an odd situation due to possibly being a later addition. All I've been shown are examples of stories that contain hyperbole. These don't show me that what I've shared and not yielded on cannot be hyperbole. God saw that the wickedness of mankind was great. How great was it? It was so great that their thoughts were evil 24/7. What in the context deems Gensis 6:5 not to be hyperbole?
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3486 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
Since I've conceded on Noah's age, I am baffled as to why it is still an issue and we aren't moving forward.
My explanations for yielding are in Message 22 and Message 41. Neither said anything about Genesis 5. The ages are exaggerated when compared to reality. The exaggerated age doesn't seem to be written to stimulate a visual image in our mind's eye. The agees were probably more about filling a gap. Yes, per Friedman, Genesis 5 was added by the Redactor. Edited by purpledawn, : No reason given.
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3486 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
Yes, I would consider Genesis 7:19 to be hyperbole.
All hills, whole heaven. It was a very bad flood.
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3486 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:Interesting that you don't consider Matthew 23:24 to be a hyperbole. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel. Matthew 23:24 The camel and gnat are not being compared to each other. Straining out gnats or their larvae from one's drinking water was common. The camel is an exaggeration of what can be swallowed, let alone be found in one's water. Humor of the day.
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3486 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
Genesis 5 was not the basis for agreeing that Noah's exaggerated age might not be a true hyperbole as it is used in the story. His age doesn't make a point concerning the story.
As for the rainbow question, if you have a verse you feel I would consider to be hyperbole, please provide the verse.
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3486 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined:
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As I said in Message 1, this thread is not about what Christianity teaches. It is about what the text says.
Since the flood didn't cover the planet, there were plenty of places for people to go. Notice the Nephilum were still around after the flood. Genesis 6:4.
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3486 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined:
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quote:Asked and answered. How do you determine hyperbole in any other book you read. It's your turn to explain. If you want to argue the position that the verse is fact, then make your argument. I'm not going to debate against a position not presented by a participant.
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3486 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined:
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quote:Message 52 We are comparing the wording used in the sentence to convey the image to the audience, to reality. We have to look at what is written. People also look at examples of various types of hyperbole. This gives them a feel for what a hyperbole entails. I provided links with examples. You provided a verse and I told you why I considered it hyperbole. Message 64. I stated in the OP that words like all, everything, and forever can signal hyperbole. Your turn. How is hyperbole determined in any other book we read?
quote:I didn't ask you to prove anything. If you disagree with my position then, yes, the burden is on you to present and support your position. If you disagree that a verse is hyperbole, then you need to explain why it isn't and provide support. I have explained why I feel the verses I've shared are hyperbole and I've provided links. Just because you don't like my explanations or links doesn't mean I haven't explained or supported what I've said. quote:I presented my position in Message 1. Many times we have examined the accuracy and inerrancy of Bible passages, but how many were simply exaggerations? Although I dislike apologetics, I would like to look at various passages considered by some to be contradictions or absolute statements and see if hyperbole comes into play. Then I've shared verses I consider to contain hyperbole. So my position concerning the verses I share is that they contain hyperbole. I don't share verses I don't feel contain hyperbole. Again that means my position concerning the verses I share is that they contain hyperbole. If someone disagrees with me and feels that the verses I shared are fact, that means their position is that the verse does not contain hyperbole. My position is that the verse contains hyperbole. I only need to provide support and reasoned argumentation for my position concerning the verses I share. Now you know, my position concerning the verses I share is that they contain hyperbole. Those who consider it fact will have to provide their own support and reasoned argumentation since my position is that the verses I've shared contain hyperbole. One last time: My position concerning the verses I share is that they contain hyperbole.
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3486 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined:
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quote:Sorry, that is not my argument. quote:The fact that you said that doesn't mean they aren't either. Both verses use a universal negative. Basically, never before and never again. Absolutes tend to be exaggerations. (No, I didn't say that all absolutes are exaggerations.) IMO, the audience would understand it as a compliment. So what is your support that they should be read literally and be considered contradictions?Really if you do understand them literally, they still aren't contradictions because each individual is unique. Each king is going to have his own style and foibles. quote:That was just the opening post. What did you expect, a dissertaion? How is hyperbole determined in any other book we read?
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