Summations Only

Even if your unsupported assumptions(Whatever begins to exist has a cause.
The universe began to exist.
Therefore, the universe has a cause. )were true, it provides absolutely no support for any Universe Designer or Creator God, or any god for that matter, and this was clearly pointed out to the then Pope back in 1927 by none other than Monsignor Georges Henri Joseph douard Lematre.Even if there was some cause to the Big Bang there is no reason that the cause need not be entirely normal, trivial and transient.Just as the spark that starts a forest fire is small, trivial and does not survive the event itself, just as the crack that allows a dam to break leading to a massive flood might be small, trivial and not survive the event itself, the cause if there was one for the Big Bang need not be significant, large or continue to exist after the event.Sorry, but the Big Bang supplies no support for any Universe Designer or Creator God, or any god for that matter.

Well, defeating philosophic arguments is not very hard and philosophic arguments are pretty much as worthless as philosophers in the first place.This universe seems to have had a beginning but that is no more consistent with the idea of a creator God or Designer then it is with the idea of magic fairies or purple people eaters.There is no evidence of any god or designers while there is overwhelming evidence that causes are usually trivial, insignificant and transient.In addition, you made a series of unsupported assertions to begin your discussion which while unsupported and false, I accepted for this discussion.The point is that even IF the premises you presented were true, they provide no evidence to support any creator God or Designer.

And again, your reasoning is sophomoric.Monsignor Georges Henri Joseph douard Lematre did not write the Pope to emphasize that his theory did not add support for a Creator God or Designer because he did not believe in God.As a Christian I did not point out that the cause, if there was one, for the Big Bang could be trivial, insignificant and transient because I do not believe in God.The reason that both of us responded as we did is because... wait for it ... wait for it ... the cause of the Big Bang if there was a cause could be anything, something trivial and insignificant and transient.

Speaking as a Christian, the "Fine Tuning" argument has got to be one of the silliest, inane, incorrect, sophomoric and completely ludicrous ones ever put forward. To then add "which happen to be consistent with words attributed to the "Being" Himself" just makes it even more laughable.Almost nothing in this universe seems to be "fine tuned" and as a matter of fact almost all of this universe seems to be inimical to life of any kind.There is zero, nada, none, no evidence of the existence of any designer while there is ample and overwhelming evidence of totally natural causes.

Your opinion could not in any way offend me, that would be even sillier than the "Fine Tuning" argument.I said the "Fine Tuning" argument is silly and sophomoric, not that you are silly or sophomoric.It (the Fine Tuning argument as evidence of some Designer or Creator God), like the ideas presented in the OP are simply irrelevant and offer no indication of any designer or Creator God.The Universe is as it is. As I pointed out it is almost universally inimical to life. There is ample evidence to support the existence natural causes but so far no one has presented any evidence of the existence of any Designer or Creator God.When you or someone else actually presents evidence of some Designer or Creator God, then that evidence can be examined and tested. Bring the Designer or Creator God in and put it on the lab table or into evidence and let us take a look at it.

A forest fire certainly is more complex than the spark that started it, or perhaps you have never been in one.The evidence though is overwhelming that many causes are insignificant, trivial and transient.

You are making a claim that there is some Designer or Creator God, yet seem unwilling to present evidence of such a critter. And yes, if you did bring such a critter in for examination it would show that it was not anything supernatural.That is exactly why is is so silly and sophomoric to try to make a claim of evidence of God.I certainly am not ridiculing you, only the ideas that you have presented.

Get specific about what you consider fine tuning and then we can discuss whether or not it is evidence for your asserted Designer or Creator God.I make no comments about anyone's intelligence, only about the ideas presented.Paul was often a horses ass and was absolutely wrong about many things. That does not mean he was not sincere, just that he was completely wrong and often showed really slopping thinking.If you think that the Cambrian explosion show anything about design, then I must assume that you know nearly nothing about what the Cambrian Explosion was.The difference when it comes to evidence really comes down to "what can be presented".There is ample and overwhelming evidence of natural causes. Until you can present comparable evidence for any supernatural causes you have nothing.

Sorry but Evolution has nothing to do with whether or not God exists. In fact most chapters of Club Christian understand that Evolution is a fact and the the Theory of Evolution is the only explanation so far for the diversity of life that is seen.In the words of the Clergy Project:

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We the undersigned, Christian clergy from many different traditions, believe that the timeless truths of the Bible and the discoveries of modern science may comfortably coexist. We believe that the theory of evolution is a foundational scientific truth, one that has stood up to rigorous scrutiny and upon which much of human knowledge and achievement rests. To reject this truth or to treat it as one theory among others is to deliberately embrace scientific ignorance and transmit such ignorance to our children. We believe that among God’s good gifts are human minds capable of critical thought and that the failure to fully employ this gift is a rejection of the will of our Creator. To argue that God’s loving plan of salvation for humanity precludes the full employment of the God-given faculty of reason is to attempt to limit God, an act of hubris. We urge school board members to preserve the integrity of the science curriculum by affirming the teaching of the theory of evolution as a core component of human knowledge.

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Not yet, but since in all of history not one single unnatural cause of anything has ever been found, I can say with a very high degree of confidence that when the cause is found it will be a natural cause.

You made a assertion, that there was evidence for a Designer or Creator God.I am simply asking you to present that evidence.I have already told you that I am a Christian and therefore believe in the Super Natural, so once again you simply misrepresent my position.

Well the Young Earth assertion is certainly not a Theory and to try to claim it as a theory is just plain wrong.It is a religious belief that is shown to be false by overwhelming evidence.Christians and others abandoned the Young Earth nonsense because it is false, has been refuted and honesty requires its abandonment.

Even if all of those factors were true (and many are only trivially true and relevant only from the perspective of the one form of life we know about so far) they still offer no support for either a Designer or a Creator God.In addition, they are vaguely worded. How much bigger or smaller might they be before it became a problem?Remember, in the original version of Christians Marketing the Fine Tune Argument, they tried to pitch nonsense like the Earth is the right distance from the sun, and it was only when the audience were rolling on the floor laughing that they changed the marketing spiel to look at the basic forces you mention.

As a Christian, that may well be true.But speaking of causes, it is not a matter of faith at all but rather as I mention, a conclusion based on solid evidence.As I said, in all of history not one single unnatural cause of anything has ever been found so I can say with a very high degree of confidence that when the cause of the Big Bang is found it will be a natural cause.

That also offers no support for the existence of some Designer or Creator God, particularly the Christian created concept of GOD.