This just in, Wisconsin Senators Pass Bill Pushing Abstinence Over Contraception

I guess what I was confused by is that "veteran" means "somebody who fought in a war". Certainly our servicemen and women have contributed and continue to contribute much to America, and I hope I didn't give you the impression that I didn't believe that. My wife serves in AMEDD as an entomologist (she's working on malaria right now) so I'm certainly mindful of the vast contributions and accomplishments of service personnel. I disagree, since the context here is Veteran's Day, not Armed Forces Day. I'm sorry if I somehow gave you the wrong impression about what I was talking about, but surely a glance at a calendar might have addressed your confusion. You've misunderstood. My position is that no American war has done anything to defend the freedom of Americans since WWII, and that's abundantly true.Edited by crashfrog, : No reason given.

Regular Army, early 70s, both Combat Engineers ("Build and Destroy") and Information Specialist (photojournalist and troop newspaper editor):"You mean you got film in that thing?" I trained at Ft. Knox and Ft. Harrison and toured old New England, beautiful SE Asia, and Korea.Thanks for the kind words.

Yet a worse people would not have awakened to the waste and injustice of Vietnam and forced the politicians to end it.Much of the blame for our military misadventures since WWII belongs to our leadership, both military and civilian. Politicians, like Johnson, pursued folly out of fear of being "the first president to lose a war." The generals rarely find a war they aren't prepared to fight. The media too often fail to report or delay reporting essential information the American people need to understand the "facts on the ground" until someone like Cronkite goes to the Nam and reports, "This is a clusterfuck."Our nation's military misadventurism certainly predates the second half of the 20th century: the Spanish-American War, the Philippine and Hawaiian conquests, and much more. We honed our military tradition by carving a new world out of the American Indian.I answered my own call to arms with deep reservations, having already participated in anti-war protests and being filled with a revulsion for violence after a childhood replete with it. Ultimately, I decided that if only those who serve for the wrong reasons agree to serve, then our armed forces would be filled with exactly the wrong people. Canada looked good, but, astoundingly, I discovered that I had a sense of honor that could not abide running away.Like many vets of that era, I sometimes envied the clear-cut wars of our fathers against almost cartoonishly evil aggressors; but I was also philosophically puzzled by folks who thought that the U.S. had no need of armies in a world of armed nation states.A soldier has to swear to obey lawful orders. That is a more difficult task than one might imagine, since many orders are foolish yet legal. But a world in which soldiers fight only honorably is a world several steps closer than our own to peace.So don't be sorry--you're too young to answer to the sins of the past. Just keep speaking out. America's warriors have necessarily (and now voluntarily) submitted themselves to the will of others, short of unlawful and dishonorable orders, and a people that questions the need for their sacrifices and the conduct of their leaders is their best ally.Sorry if that sounds preachy: I'm feeling the wisdom of about a liter of oak-aged reminiscence and too many decades of perspective.

Yes, but veterans are also servicemen who do the same stuff that we former servicemen who never saw combat do. I'm glad to see we are on the same accord. That kind of condescension is incompatible with my view of you from your other posts. Veterans are servicemen who also happen to have fought in a combat. I don't apologize for taking your comment at face value. I'll also note that I was completely clear about the exact reason that I objected to your initial statement. You simply missed it.

We're maybe talking past each other. Let me just say that it was not ever my intention to slight servicemen and women, but rather to slight the leadership that so frequently plays a shell game with their lives and livelihoods.

With all due respect (the Woody Allen "Broadway Danny Rose" implications fully intended) and a middle finger extended as well, not only vertically for yourself but also horizontally "for the horse you rode in on" ...I served six years active duty as a "cold warrior" on a SAC base, then another 29 years as a reservist, ready to be mobilized at any moment. I retired just one week ago after having served for more than 35 years. How long did you serve?

Wisconsin Republicans seek to criminalize all abortion as well as contraceptionI regret the day I moved to this state. Slowly pushing reproductive freedom back to the stone age.

What's the process for amending the state constitution in WI?

I've no clue, but with some digging I'm sure I could find out. However, whether or not it is constitutional is not as big of a deal as the fact that there are people in high office that want to do enact policies like this.

If it makes you feel any better, initiative to introduce these bills into state legislatures is being pushed by national organizations that probably don't include many Wisconsin natives.Wisconsin's legislators have been awfully busy at this introducing reactionary bills this year.

From Wikipedia:

quote:

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Wisconsin does not have petition-based referendums or initiatives.

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However, passing an amendment requires a lengthy three-vote process:

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First, a majority of members in both houses of the state legislature must vote in favor of the amendment.
Once the proposed amendment passes both houses for the first time, any further progress in the amendment's adaptation must wait until after general elections have been held and the state legislature has reconvened with the members chosen in the new elections; then, both houses must vote a second time to accept the proposed amendment (without changes).
Should the amendment pass the legislature twice, it must be approved in a third vote, the popular vote cast by Wisconsin citizens.

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Sounds like there is the opportunity for a lot of politics to go on if the bill can get out of the legislature.

Um even though its off topic how do your countries reservists work, in mine its not a bad deal if you are short on cash you get 3 months of training and they pay you for it not much though around 1500 EUR, after that if you are military material they keep you as a reservist you have to go and train and stuff on weekends get payed for it and they only call on you if our country is under attack.I personally like my weekends too much to take the deal , but allot of folks did. I personally preffered it before when every able man got a few months of basic training and every vaulentiring women too u could say that you cant kill because of any reason but then you had other training that does not involve a gun. this old system provided us with at least 700 000 standing reservists that did not cost the country a penny after their basic training was done, it provided the youth with discipline, and it proved its worth in ww2 even though we where occupied by the Germans we made it hell for them to hold our country, it also proved its worth in our independence ware of 10 days lol our "army" of cops real army and ACTIVE reservists numbered at 26000 theirs was 36000 with tanks and airplanes and the like witch we did not have. We lost 18 people 180 where wounded none captured, they lost 44 people 144 wounded and over 5000 captured.