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Author | Topic: Who can be saved? A Christian perspective | |||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Your post is just more Goat bleeting.
Edited by jar, : appalin spallinAnyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I am not say that all Christians will be Goats, but that far more Goats will be Christians than anything else. For example, a Christian that supports the current Nation of Israel and does not support the Palestinians is a Goat.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Let me expand a little more along this line.
There are many Christians that view Christianity and Christians as Jesus chosen people just as there are many Jews (and were many Jews in Jesus day) that viewed the Hebrews as a Chosen People. A popular marketing tactic when selling Christianity is that it is only those who profess Jesus, are washed in the Blood of the Lamb, are Born Again, have been Saved, been Called to the Altar, touched by the Hand of God, and a whole bunch of other bumper sticker trivialities, only those member of the "in Crowd" get to go to Heaven. Jesus is pretty clear that all that is is bullshit, snake oil marketing, nonsense. A good example can be found in Luke 4.
quote: Here Jesus is speaking in a synagogue in his home town to Jewish Elders, yet he points out that Elias ad Eliseus were NOT sent to the Jews, but to nations other than Israel.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 1.9 |
I think I see what you are getting at although I just can’t see it being understood that way. I’ll use the American Standard translation as it is my understanding that it is the most literal translation and it is easier to understand than the one you are using.
quote: First off we see that he is talking about all nations in a world where only a small group of people had ever heard of Him. He isn’t dividing them into groups of those who followed Him and those who didn’t. The sheep in this are the ones who cared for those in need, regardless of their societal position, and without thought of personal reward. It has nothing to do with what they believed; it was all to do with how they loved and cared for others, and again, without thought of reward.
quote: The goats then are those who neglected those in need, or in other words those that went through life looking out for number one. I would agree with you that also included in this group there would be followers of Yahweh and/or Jesus who felt that by performing charitable acts they would receive a reward for what they did. That idea would be consistent with Matthew 7:21 where it is clear that to be a follower of Jesus requires more than intellectual assent while looking for personal gain. In the end it is all about humble kindness, mercy and justice; do we love selfishly or unselfishly.Everybody is entitled to my opinion.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I think the Goats will be almost all Christians, for why would someone who had never heard of Jesus or was not a follower of Jesus say "44Then shall they also answer, saying, Lord, when saw we thee hungry, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?"
Someone who was not a follower of Jesus would know that they never had done anything for Jesus.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3668 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: Yet Jews were not chosen to have loads of land, population, power, oil or water. In fact they were given the smallest patch of all nations, with half desert, surrounded by killer nations, exiled, holocausted and said to have no right to exist. Have you heard the one about Jews occupying Jerusalem and Hebron!? Yet those who chant LOVE IS ALL YOU NEED and PEACE BE UPON YOU are raging mad with red eyes and blood dripping from their lips for 2000 years now. They have become 'subject to Jews' belief systems - to the extent they cannot uphold a belief in the Creator if Jews are not bad. They have made the Holy Creator a cursory after thought - if even that. I say, there is chosen - and there is CHOSEN. Choose your chosen: 1. No Salvation but through JC. [Chosen by exclusive kingdom keys] 2. No Paradise but through Big Mo. [Chosen by the last and final no-buts last word from Allah] 3. Be a light unto the nations [Chosen by example only] I say, next time please choose someone else. Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 1.9 |
This is an eschatological mesasage. He has gathered all the nations before Him. There is no longer doubt about who He is. They just didn't recognize the concept that all acts of unselfish love are actually done for Him whether we recognize it or not.
You used to have a Narnia quote as a signature, so I assume that you are familiar with "The Last Battle". Here is a quote from it. Tash of course represents the evil one while the lion, Aslan is of course a Christ figure.
quote: Edited by GDR, : No reason given.Everybody is entitled to my opinion.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
And as in that fable, I believe heaven will be filled, if heaven exists, with far more Taoists, Satanist, Jews, Wicaans, Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Atheist, Agnostics, Animists, Diest, Pagans, followers of the Greek, Roman, Norse, Egyptian, Germanic Gods and of Confucius, Mencius and even Coyote than there will be Christians there.
But the Goats will still be almost totally made up of Christians.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 1.9 |
jar writes: There are many Christians that view Christianity and Christians as Jesus chosen people just as there are many Jews (and were many Jews in Jesus day) that viewed the Hebrews as a Chosen People. A popular marketing tactic when selling Christianity is that it is only those who profess Jesus, are washed in the Blood of the Lamb, are Born Again, have been Saved, been Called to the Altar, touched by the Hand of God, and a whole bunch of other bumper sticker trivialities, only those member of the "in Crowd" get to go to Heaven. I think that the mistake is made in thinking that being chosen makes anyone special or that they are going to enjoy salvation while others don't. It isn't that the Jews or the church are chosen for salvation but IMHO they are chosen for vocation. Their vocation is about taking God's truth, love, mercy, justice, peace, forgiveness etc to the world. Before someone else says it; I agree that we aren't making much of a job of it. It seems so much of the focus is on me and my salvation which is just putting the focus back on ourselves which is just the opposite of what Jesus taught.Everybody is entitled to my opinion.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3668 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: Come, let us reason together. If Christians rejected Mohammed because they wanted Jesus to tell them the score, why not also demand that only Moses can speak on his own behalf? Consider: If Jesus came again, and he said something in contradiction of the Quran - would Muslims prostrate and agree? Or let's say Mohammed came again, and he said something in contradiction of the Gospels - would all Christians kneel and say thank you? It begs the question what if Moses came again, and said TUT! TUT! Both JC & Mo all got it wrong. Of course none know what will or can happen. But till the fat lady finishes her song, it is reasonable to have a Plan B. We might just get a result which is not popular and the most un-anticipated questions in our faces. If Christianity and Islam are in mutual contradiction of each other, then I say both must show some credibility and metal - only Moses - not JC or MO - can clear up this mess! WHAT IS HATEFUL TO YOU - ASK NOT OF OTHERS.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3668 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: That has to be the ubsurdist statement in all recorded history. No human is more un-proven than Jesus and the Gospel figures. No names has cost more innocent lives than that of Jesus. Not a shred of proof, evidence, parchment, relic, cross-nation reference or indicator exists - in a time when such proof would be and should be blatant with no excuses legitimate. Hello!?
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 1.9 |
jar writes: And as in that fable, I believe heaven will be filled, if heaven exists, with far more Taoists, Satanist, Jews, Wicaans, Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Atheist, Agnostics, Animists, Diest, Pagans, followers of the Greek, Roman, Norse, Egyptian, Germanic Gods and of Confucius, Mencius and even Coyote than there will be Christians there.But the Goats will still be almost totally made up of Christians. On what grounds do you believe that? If you accept that Matthew 25 actual represents some form of truth then to me it is clear that it is about having unselfish hearts, and I can't see where you have basis on which to make a judgement about which group is likely or not likely to fit that profile. Personally I dislike talking about salvation. I resisted getting involved in this discussion as I don't feel I have much to say, but I just had questions about how you were interpreting Matthew 25. As for who winds up where when time comes to an end I think is best left up to God, and in the meantime I'll just kinda muddle along trying to serve His kingdom as I understand it. If I have my theology all wrong then so be it. Everybody is entitled to my opinion.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Let's walk through it one small step at a time.
Do you think there have been more Taoists, Satanist, Jews, Wicaans, Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Atheist, Agnostics, Animists, Diest, Pagans, followers of the Greek, Roman, Norse, Egyptian, Germanic Gods and of Confucius, Mencius and even Coyote than there have been Christians Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 1.9 |
IaJ writes: That has to be the ubsurdist statement in all recorded history. No human is more un-proven than Jesus and the Gospel figures. No names has cost more innocent lives than that of Jesus. Not a shred of proof, evidence, parchment, relic, cross-nation reference or indicator exists - in a time when such proof would be and should be blatant with no excuses legitimate. Hello!? You may be right. My statement was based on accepting the essential truth of the statement in Matthew 25. I'll try to avoid making such ubsurbist statements in the future. Everybody is entitled to my opinion.
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 1.9 |
jar writes: Let's walk through it one small step at a time.Do you think there have been more Taoists, Satanist, Jews, Wicaans, Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Atheist, Agnostics, Animists, Diest, Pagans, followers of the Greek, Roman, Norse, Egyptian, Germanic Gods and of Confucius, Mencius and even Coyote than there have been Christians Fine, but don't forget you also said:
quote:
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