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Author | Topic: Who can be saved? A Christian perspective | |||||||||||||||||||||||
IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3668 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
No question the belief is genuine; but the facts on the ground do not validate it. The facts say belief is generic to all humans and human groups, none have patent rights on it.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
So you understand why the Sheep will be made up of far more Taoists, Satanist, Jews, Wicaans, Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Atheist, Agnostics, Animists, Diest, Pagans, followers of the Greek, Roman, Norse, Egyptian, Germanic Gods and of Confucius, Mencius and even Coyote than Christians.
Now let's look at the Goats. Look again at the Goats reply:
quote: Notice their reply. When did we see YOU in need and did not help YOU? No one but a close associate, a follower, would say such things.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 1.9 |
Sorry... gotta run
Cheers
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.5 |
jar writes: Your post is just more Goat bleeting. Ops you are the one bleeting. But as usual if you can't refute what is said just cast a sarcasm and move on, walking around in your blind stupor. God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 1.9 |
jar writes: Notice their reply. When did we see YOU in need and did not help YOU? No one but a close associate, a follower, would say such things.
I see no reason at all to make that assumption. If I'm just meeting someone for the first time I would address them as you. What do you suggest they would call Him then if they were just meeting Him for the first time? I think the whole point is moot anyway. I agree that there are a lot more non-Christians than Christians in the world so numerically speaking there are lilkely to be more non-Christians than Christians who have hearts that love unselfishly. Frankly I'm not going to worry much about it. I'm quiet happy to leave that up to God.Everybody is entitled to my opinion.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Again, read closely. The Goats say, when have we NOT done for YOU?
Would someone who was meeting someone for the first time say "When did we NOT do for you?"Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Here's what jar's getting at:
The goats' reply to Jesus is like: "Wait, what? When didn't we help you." As if they've been following him around this whole time. The sheeps' reply is like: "Wait, what? When did we help you." As if this is the first time we've met.
I see no reason at all to make that assumption. If I'm just meeting someone for the first time I would address them as you. What do you suggest they would call Him then if they were just meeting Him for the first time? If you meet someone for the first time and they say: "Hey, thanks for all the money you gave me." Wouldn't your reply be along the lines of: "Huh? When did I give you money?" Conversly, if your good friend said: "Hey, thanks alot for never giving me any money." Wouldn't your reply be along the lines of: "Huh? I've given you money plenty of times, what are you talking about?" The goats' response is like that of a good friend while the sheeps' response is like that of a stranger. I agree with you that that isn't really the whole point, but what jar's saying is consistant with the story.
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 1.9 |
OK I can see that but it is also the same for the sheep.
The sheep reply :
quote: The goats reply:
quote: I see what you and CS are getting at but I just can’t agree. The sheep are just as incredulous as the goats. They had no idea that it was Jesus that they were serving. They thought that it was just fellow human travellers. The goats also had no idea that it was Jesus they were ignoring when they neglected to help the needy. It seems to me in both cases it could apply to those who had never met or heard of Jesus previously or to those who had always followed Him. Look at the parallels between this passage and the story of The Good Samaritan. It was the Samaritan that helped out whereas the supposed holy ones passed by. In neither case did they see themselves doing or not doing this for Jesus or God. Again I see the point of the sheep is that they acted without understanding that their actions had eternal consequences. The contrast is in doing so-called good works with the idea that you will be rewarded for doing them which would mitigate against the value of the act. Everybody is entitled to my opinion.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
You say that you see the difference, yet your post seems to miss the significance entirely.
I said that the Goats will almost all Christians, followers of Jesus, and the text supports that position. The failure is that the followers didn't get the message. The point is that all mankind is charged to feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, comfort the sorrowful, clothe the naked, teach the children, heal the sick, protect the helpless. There will be far more Satanists, Wicaans, Atheists, Agnostics, Taoists, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Muslims, Animists, Diest, Pagans, followers of the Greek, Roman, Norse, Egyptian, Germanic Gods and of Confucius, Mencius and even Coyote that get it than Christians.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 1.9 |
jar writes: I said that the Goats will almost all Christians, followers of Jesus, and the text supports that position. I agree it can be read that way but if it is then it has to apply equally to the sheep. At the same time that isn't the only way to understand it.
jar writes: The point is that all mankind is charged to feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, comfort the sorrowful, clothe the naked, teach the children, heal the sick, protect the helpless. That has been my contention all along. I agree with that completely.Everybody is entitled to my opinion.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
GDR writes: jar writes: I said that the Goats will almost all Christians, followers of Jesus, and the text supports that position. I agree it can be read that way but if it is then it has to apply equally to the sheep. At the same time that isn't the only way to understand it. I don't see any other way to understand it. Yes, there could be followers of Jesus in with the Sheep as well, but they got it. None of the Goats got it, and what is written,
quote: {see underlined section} appears to be something only a follower of Jesus would say.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 1.9 |
jar writes: I don't see any other way to understand it. It is that the sheep fed the hungry etc with no idea that they were doing it for anyone other than the person they were serving. They just did it because for them it was the right thing to do. They loved unselfishly. The "goats" (corrected by edit) didn’t feed the hungry etc without any understanding that they actually represented Jesus, whether or not they had any idea of who Jesus was. They just didn’t serve the needy because they were too wrapped up in themselves. In other words they loved selfishly. As I said before, look at the parallels between this and The Good Samaritan. It has nothing to do with religious belief or doctrine. The point of being Christian isn’t found in this eschatological parable. Edited by GDR, : I had typed sheep when I meant goats.Everybody is entitled to my opinion.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Correct, for the Sheep.
But the topic was the Goats.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 1.9 |
Sorry. My previous post required correcting. I have edited it.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
It is that the sheep fed the hungry etc with no idea that they were doing it for anyone other than the person they were serving. They just did it because for them it was the right thing to do. They loved unselfishly. Right, they were ministering unto the least of his people, without realizing they were doing it to Him too. So when Jesus said that they did it to Him, their reply was: "Huh? When did we do it to you?" Had they been his followers, they wouldn't have had to ask that, because they would have been around him doing those things and been all: "Yup, I remember that."
The "goats" (corrected by edit) didn’t feed the hungry etc without any understanding that they actually represented Jesus, whether or not they had any idea of who Jesus was. They just didn’t serve the needy because they were too wrapped up in themselves. In other words they loved selfishly. Right, and when Jesus said 'thanks a lot for not helping me', their reply was: "Huh, when didn't we help you?" His followers would have asked something like that because they would have been around him and it didn't make sense that he was claiming they didn't (because they didn't realize he was referring to the least of his people). A person who did not follow Jesus would not have asked something like that, because they would have been all: "Well, since we've just met there's no way we could have helped you yet".
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