Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,815 Year: 3,072/9,624 Month: 917/1,588 Week: 100/223 Day: 11/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Who can be saved? A Christian perspective
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 361 of 466 (641202)
11-17-2011 9:15 PM
Reply to: Message 359 by GDR
11-17-2011 9:00 PM


Re: The Goats were followers of Jesus.
No question the belief is genuine; but the facts on the ground do not validate it. The facts say belief is generic to all humans and human groups, none have patent rights on it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 359 by GDR, posted 11-17-2011 9:00 PM GDR has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 362 of 466 (641204)
11-17-2011 9:23 PM
Reply to: Message 360 by GDR
11-17-2011 9:07 PM


Re: The Goats were followers of Jesus.
So you understand why the Sheep will be made up of far more Taoists, Satanist, Jews, Wicaans, Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Atheist, Agnostics, Animists, Diest, Pagans, followers of the Greek, Roman, Norse, Egyptian, Germanic Gods and of Confucius, Mencius and even Coyote than Christians.
Now let's look at the Goats.
Look again at the Goats reply:
quote:
44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Notice their reply. When did we see YOU in need and did not help YOU?
No one but a close associate, a follower, would say such things.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 360 by GDR, posted 11-17-2011 9:07 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 363 by GDR, posted 11-17-2011 9:31 PM jar has seen this message but not replied
 Message 365 by GDR, posted 11-18-2011 12:56 AM jar has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 363 of 466 (641206)
11-17-2011 9:31 PM
Reply to: Message 362 by jar
11-17-2011 9:23 PM


Re: The Goats were followers of Jesus.
Sorry... gotta run
Cheers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 362 by jar, posted 11-17-2011 9:23 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 364 of 466 (641207)
11-17-2011 9:40 PM
Reply to: Message 346 by jar
11-17-2011 5:14 PM


Re: The Goats were followers of Jesus.
jar writes:
Your post is just more Goat bleeting.
Ops you are the one bleeting.
But as usual if you can't refute what is said just cast a sarcasm and move on, walking around in your blind stupor.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 346 by jar, posted 11-17-2011 5:14 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 365 of 466 (641213)
11-18-2011 12:56 AM
Reply to: Message 362 by jar
11-17-2011 9:23 PM


Re: The Goats were followers of Jesus.
jar writes:
Notice their reply. When did we see YOU in need and did not help YOU?
No one but a close associate, a follower, would say such things.
I see no reason at all to make that assumption. If I'm just meeting someone for the first time I would address them as you. What do you suggest they would call Him then if they were just meeting Him for the first time?
I think the whole point is moot anyway. I agree that there are a lot more non-Christians than Christians in the world so numerically speaking there are lilkely to be more non-Christians than Christians who have hearts that love unselfishly. Frankly I'm not going to worry much about it. I'm quiet happy to leave that up to God.

Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 362 by jar, posted 11-17-2011 9:23 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 366 by jar, posted 11-18-2011 9:10 AM GDR has replied
 Message 367 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-18-2011 10:00 AM GDR has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 366 of 466 (641259)
11-18-2011 9:10 AM
Reply to: Message 365 by GDR
11-18-2011 12:56 AM


Re: The Goats were followers of Jesus.
Again, read closely. The Goats say, when have we NOT done for YOU?
Would someone who was meeting someone for the first time say "When did we NOT do for you?"

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 365 by GDR, posted 11-18-2011 12:56 AM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 368 by GDR, posted 11-18-2011 10:50 AM jar has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 367 of 466 (641268)
11-18-2011 10:00 AM
Reply to: Message 365 by GDR
11-18-2011 12:56 AM


Re: The Goats were followers of Jesus.
Here's what jar's getting at:
The goats' reply to Jesus is like: "Wait, what? When didn't we help you." As if they've been following him around this whole time.
The sheeps' reply is like: "Wait, what? When did we help you." As if this is the first time we've met.
I see no reason at all to make that assumption. If I'm just meeting someone for the first time I would address them as you. What do you suggest they would call Him then if they were just meeting Him for the first time?
If you meet someone for the first time and they say: "Hey, thanks for all the money you gave me." Wouldn't your reply be along the lines of: "Huh? When did I give you money?"
Conversly, if your good friend said: "Hey, thanks alot for never giving me any money." Wouldn't your reply be along the lines of: "Huh? I've given you money plenty of times, what are you talking about?"
The goats' response is like that of a good friend while the sheeps' response is like that of a stranger.
I agree with you that that isn't really the whole point, but what jar's saying is consistant with the story.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 365 by GDR, posted 11-18-2011 12:56 AM GDR has not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 368 of 466 (641272)
11-18-2011 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 366 by jar
11-18-2011 9:10 AM


Re: The Goats were followers of Jesus.
OK I can see that but it is also the same for the sheep.
The sheep reply :
quote:
37"Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink ?38'And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You?39'When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?'
The goats reply:
quote:
44"Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?'
I see what you and CS are getting at but I just can’t agree. The sheep are just as incredulous as the goats. They had no idea that it was Jesus that they were serving. They thought that it was just fellow human travellers. The goats also had no idea that it was Jesus they were ignoring when they neglected to help the needy.
It seems to me in both cases it could apply to those who had never met or heard of Jesus previously or to those who had always followed Him.
Look at the parallels between this passage and the story of The Good Samaritan. It was the Samaritan that helped out whereas the supposed holy ones passed by. In neither case did they see themselves doing or not doing this for Jesus or God.
Again I see the point of the sheep is that they acted without understanding that their actions had eternal consequences. The contrast is in doing so-called good works with the idea that you will be rewarded for doing them which would mitigate against the value of the act.

Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 366 by jar, posted 11-18-2011 9:10 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 369 by jar, posted 11-18-2011 11:09 AM GDR has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 369 of 466 (641276)
11-18-2011 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 368 by GDR
11-18-2011 10:50 AM


Re: The Goats were followers of Jesus.
You say that you see the difference, yet your post seems to miss the significance entirely.
I said that the Goats will almost all Christians, followers of Jesus, and the text supports that position.
The failure is that the followers didn't get the message.
The point is that all mankind is charged to feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, comfort the sorrowful, clothe the naked, teach the children, heal the sick, protect the helpless.
There will be far more Satanists, Wicaans, Atheists, Agnostics, Taoists, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Muslims, Animists, Diest, Pagans, followers of the Greek, Roman, Norse, Egyptian, Germanic Gods and of Confucius, Mencius and even Coyote that get it than Christians.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 368 by GDR, posted 11-18-2011 10:50 AM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 370 by GDR, posted 11-18-2011 11:32 AM jar has replied
 Message 392 by ICANT, posted 11-19-2011 5:25 PM jar has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 370 of 466 (641281)
11-18-2011 11:32 AM
Reply to: Message 369 by jar
11-18-2011 11:09 AM


Re: The Goats were followers of Jesus.
jar writes:
I said that the Goats will almost all Christians, followers of Jesus, and the text supports that position.
I agree it can be read that way but if it is then it has to apply equally to the sheep. At the same time that isn't the only way to understand it.
jar writes:
The point is that all mankind is charged to feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, comfort the sorrowful, clothe the naked, teach the children, heal the sick, protect the helpless.
That has been my contention all along. I agree with that completely.

Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 369 by jar, posted 11-18-2011 11:09 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 371 by jar, posted 11-18-2011 11:42 AM GDR has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 371 of 466 (641284)
11-18-2011 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 370 by GDR
11-18-2011 11:32 AM


Re: The Goats were followers of Jesus.
GDR writes:
jar writes:
I said that the Goats will almost all Christians, followers of Jesus, and the text supports that position.
I agree it can be read that way but if it is then it has to apply equally to the sheep. At the same time that isn't the only way to understand it.
I don't see any other way to understand it. Yes, there could be followers of Jesus in with the Sheep as well, but they got it.
None of the Goats got it, and what is written,
quote:
44"Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?'
{see underlined section}
appears to be something only a follower of Jesus would say.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 370 by GDR, posted 11-18-2011 11:32 AM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 372 by GDR, posted 11-18-2011 11:55 AM jar has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 372 of 466 (641286)
11-18-2011 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 371 by jar
11-18-2011 11:42 AM


Re: The Goats were followers of Jesus.
jar writes:
I don't see any other way to understand it.
It is that the sheep fed the hungry etc with no idea that they were doing it for anyone other than the person they were serving. They just did it because for them it was the right thing to do. They loved unselfishly.
The "goats" (corrected by edit) didn’t feed the hungry etc without any understanding that they actually represented Jesus, whether or not they had any idea of who Jesus was. They just didn’t serve the needy because they were too wrapped up in themselves. In other words they loved selfishly.
As I said before, look at the parallels between this and The Good Samaritan.
It has nothing to do with religious belief or doctrine. The point of being Christian isn’t found in this eschatological parable.
Edited by GDR, : I had typed sheep when I meant goats.

Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 371 by jar, posted 11-18-2011 11:42 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 373 by jar, posted 11-18-2011 11:58 AM GDR has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 373 of 466 (641287)
11-18-2011 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 372 by GDR
11-18-2011 11:55 AM


Re: The Goats were followers of Jesus.
Correct, for the Sheep.
But the topic was the Goats.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 372 by GDR, posted 11-18-2011 11:55 AM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 374 by GDR, posted 11-18-2011 1:38 PM jar has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 374 of 466 (641301)
11-18-2011 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 373 by jar
11-18-2011 11:58 AM


Re: The Goats were followers of Jesus.
Sorry. My previous post required correcting. I have edited it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 373 by jar, posted 11-18-2011 11:58 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 375 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-18-2011 2:15 PM GDR has replied
 Message 376 by jar, posted 11-18-2011 3:05 PM GDR has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 375 of 466 (641302)
11-18-2011 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 374 by GDR
11-18-2011 1:38 PM


Re: The Goats were followers of Jesus.
It is that the sheep fed the hungry etc with no idea that they were doing it for anyone other than the person they were serving. They just did it because for them it was the right thing to do. They loved unselfishly.
Right, they were ministering unto the least of his people, without realizing they were doing it to Him too. So when Jesus said that they did it to Him, their reply was: "Huh? When did we do it to you?" Had they been his followers, they wouldn't have had to ask that, because they would have been around him doing those things and been all: "Yup, I remember that."
The "goats" (corrected by edit) didn’t feed the hungry etc without any understanding that they actually represented Jesus, whether or not they had any idea of who Jesus was. They just didn’t serve the needy because they were too wrapped up in themselves. In other words they loved selfishly.
Right, and when Jesus said 'thanks a lot for not helping me', their reply was: "Huh, when didn't we help you?" His followers would have asked something like that because they would have been around him and it didn't make sense that he was claiming they didn't (because they didn't realize he was referring to the least of his people). A person who did not follow Jesus would not have asked something like that, because they would have been all: "Well, since we've just met there's no way we could have helped you yet".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 374 by GDR, posted 11-18-2011 1:38 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 377 by GDR, posted 11-18-2011 8:58 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024