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Author Topic:   What the KJV Bible says about the Noah Flood
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 143 of 306 (638882)
10-26-2011 5:15 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by ICANT
10-26-2011 4:40 PM


Re: Single land mass
Of course Genesis 11 is directly refuted by Genesis 10 and is another of the many contradictions found when you try to stitch the Bible together as though it was one continuing story.
Genesis 10 says:
quote:
5By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.
so there we see that there is not one language and that the term lands does not mean one continent or land mass but rather "lands controlled by one tribe or people" and that the languages. "tongue" varied by location.
The Genesis 11 says:
quote:
1And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.
That should be a clue that we are dealing with totally separate stories from totally different traditions and that there is no way to even pretend they are one story or related to the Biblical Flood Myths.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by ICANT, posted 10-26-2011 4:40 PM ICANT has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 163 of 306 (639273)
10-29-2011 8:14 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by ICANT
10-29-2011 8:10 PM


Re: Single land mass
ICANT writes:
The text teaches that the land mass whatever shape it was in in Genesis 1:10 when He called it Earth was covered by water that fell in the form of rain and water that came from the fountains of the deep. That water covered the highest land mass by 15 meters.
I don't think so.
Here is Genesis 1 in full:
quote:
Genesis 1
1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
20And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
21And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
22And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
23And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
24And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
31And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Sorry but nothing in there about "That water covered the highest land mass by 15 meters" or any fountains of the deep or even any mountains.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by ICANT, posted 10-29-2011 8:10 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by ICANT, posted 10-29-2011 8:46 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 166 of 306 (639277)
10-29-2011 8:50 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by ICANT
10-29-2011 8:46 PM


Re: Single land mass
ICANT writes:
The text teaches that the land mass whatever shape it was in in Genesis 1:10 when He called it Earth was covered by water that fell in the form of rain and water that came from the fountains of the deep. That water covered the highest land mass by 15 meters.
Show where the text says what you say in the quote above?
Edited by jar, : appalin spallin

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by ICANT, posted 10-29-2011 8:46 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 167 by ICANT, posted 10-29-2011 11:15 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 169 of 306 (639301)
10-30-2011 6:48 AM
Reply to: Message 167 by ICANT
10-29-2011 11:15 PM


Re: Single land mass
Where does the text teach " that the land mass whatever shape it was in in Genesis 1:10 when He called it Earth was covered by water that fell in the form of rain and water that came from the fountains of the deep. That water covered the highest land mass by 15 meters."
I'm sorry but so far it just seems that you are making shit up to avoid admitting that Genesis 1 does not say that the land was one mass and that none of this has anything to do with what the KJV says about the flood.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by ICANT, posted 10-29-2011 11:15 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by ICANT, posted 10-31-2011 11:52 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 171 of 306 (639412)
10-31-2011 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by ICANT
10-31-2011 11:52 AM


Re: Single land mass
Just more of your usual quote mining, taking verses out of context, inserting material that is not there and misrepresenting what is there.
No where in the Bible does it say that the geography and configuration of the world was the same at the moment represented by Gen 1:10 and at the time described by the flood myths.
The Generations stories (Genesis 10) are also a separate and independent set of stories and no where do they talk about any physical changes in the geography or configuration of the world. They are talking about areas of political, tribal and nation-state control.
BUT WAIT... THERE'S MORE:
When we look at Genesis 11 we find that it is mutually exclusive with Genesis 10; if one is true then the other is false.
AND WAIT... THERE'S MORE:
Genesis 1, Genesis 10 & Genesis 11 still say nothing about the Flood Myths.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by ICANT, posted 10-31-2011 11:52 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 173 by ICANT, posted 10-31-2011 12:48 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 174 of 306 (639417)
10-31-2011 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 173 by ICANT
10-31-2011 12:48 PM


Re: Single land mass
Again, you seem to be simply misrepresenting what is actually written.
Here is Genesis 1
quote:
6And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
Sorry but there is nothing there about all the dry land being in one place.
And now let's look at Genesis 10
quote:
Genesis 10
1Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood.
2The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.
3And the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah.
4And the sons of Javan; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim.
5By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.
6And the sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim, and Phut, and Canaan.
7And the sons of Cush; Seba, and Havilah, and Sabtah, and Raamah, and Sabtechah: and the sons of Raamah; Sheba, and Dedan.
8And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth.
9He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD.
10And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, and Erech, and Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar.
11Out of that land went forth Asshur, and builded Nineveh, and the city Rehoboth, and Calah,
12And Resen between Nineveh and Calah: the same is a great city.
13And Mizraim begat Ludim, and Anamim, and Lehabim, and Naphtuhim,
14And Pathrusim, and Casluhim, (out of whom came Philistim,) and Caphtorim.
15And Canaan begat Sidon his first born, and Heth,
16And the Jebusite, and the Amorite, and the Girgasite,
17And the Hivite, and the Arkite, and the Sinite,
18And the Arvadite, and the Zemarite, and the Hamathite: and afterward were the families of the Canaanites spread abroad.
19And the border of the Canaanites was from Sidon, as thou comest to Gerar, unto Gaza; as thou goest, unto Sodom, and Gomorrah, and Admah, and Zeboim, even unto Lasha.
20These are the sons of Ham, after their families, after their tongues, in their countries, and in their nations.
21Unto Shem also, the father of all the children of Eber, the brother of Japheth the elder, even to him were children born.
22The children of Shem; Elam, and Asshur, and Arphaxad, and Lud, and Aram.
23And the children of Aram; Uz, and Hul, and Gether, and Mash.
24And Arphaxad begat Salah; and Salah begat Eber.
25And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan.
26And Joktan begat Almodad, and Sheleph, and Hazarmaveth, and Jerah,
27And Hadoram, and Uzal, and Diklah,
28And Obal, and Abimael, and Sheba,
29And Ophir, and Havilah, and Jobab: all these were the sons of Joktan.
30And their dwelling was from Mesha, as thou goest unto Sephar a mount of the east.
31These are the sons of Shem, after their families, after their tongues, in their lands, after their nations.
32These are the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations, in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth after the flood.
Again, nothing about all the land being in one place and it is quite clear that it is talking about the establishment of areas of influence, political "lands" not physical lands.
And when we look a Genes 11, what do we find?
quote:
Genesis 11
1And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.
2And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.
3And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them thoroughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter.
4And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
5And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
6And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
7Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
8So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.
9Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.
10These are the generations of Shem: Shem was an hundred years old, and begat Arphaxad two years after the flood:
11And Shem lived after he begat Arphaxad five hundred years, and begat sons and daughters.
12And Arphaxad lived five and thirty years, and begat Salah:
13And Arphaxad lived after he begat Salah four hundred and three years, and begat sons and daughters.
14And Salah lived thirty years, and begat Eber:
15And Salah lived after he begat Eber four hundred and three years, and begat sons and daughters.
16And Eber lived four and thirty years, and begat Peleg:
17And Eber lived after he begat Peleg four hundred and thirty years, and begat sons and daughters.
18And Peleg lived thirty years, and begat Reu:
19And Peleg lived after he begat Reu two hundred and nine years, and begat sons and daughters.
20And Reu lived two and thirty years, and begat Serug:
21And Reu lived after he begat Serug two hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters.
22And Serug lived thirty years, and begat Nahor:
23And Serug lived after he begat Nahor two hundred years, and begat sons and daughters.
24And Nahor lived nine and twenty years, and begat Terah:
25And Nahor lived after he begat Terah an hundred and nineteen years, and begat sons and daughters.
26And Terah lived seventy years, and begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran.
27Now these are the generations of Terah: Terah begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran; and Haran begat Lot.
28And Haran died before his father Terah in the land of his nativity, in Ur of the Chaldees.
29And Abram and Nahor took them wives: the name of Abram's wife was Sarai; and the name of Nahor's wife, Milcah, the daughter of Haran, the father of Milcah, and the father of Iscah.
30But Sarai was barren; she had no child.
31And Terah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran his son's son, and Sarai his daughter in law, his son Abram's wife; and they went forth with them from Ur of the Chaldees, to go into the land of Canaan; and they came unto Haran, and dwelt there.
32And the days of Terah were two hundred and five years: and Terah died in Haran.
Once again, it is talking about political divisions, not physical divisions. It also is in direct contradiction to Genesis 10 right from the very first verse.
In Genesis 10 we read "5By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations. "
So different languages existed.
Yet in Genesis 11 we read "1And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech. "
One or the other is simply a false statement.
This should be a clue that the stories are not a continuing saga but rather separate, independent tales from different cultures written by different peoples to reach different audiences and for different purposes.
And NONE of it tells us anything about the Flood Myths.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by ICANT, posted 10-31-2011 12:48 PM ICANT has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 191 of 306 (639592)
11-02-2011 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 188 by Trixie
11-02-2011 5:25 AM


look at what the God characters say
The God character in the Genesis 6 version of the flood myth has this to say.
quote:
7And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
Now there is little local in that statement. It clearly says "from the face of the earth".
The God character in the version of the story in Genesis 7 goes even further.
quote:
4For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.
The God character in the Genesis 6 fable just kills off man and beast and creeping things and fowls of the air while the God character in the Genesis 7 fable says he will kill off every living substance.
In both fables though "From off the face of the earth" is specifically stated.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by Trixie, posted 11-02-2011 5:25 AM Trixie has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 193 by IamJoseph, posted 11-02-2011 10:20 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 196 of 306 (639601)
11-02-2011 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 193 by IamJoseph
11-02-2011 10:20 AM


Re: look at what the God characters say
You are of course free to make up anything you want but the topic is not what you want to make up but rather what the text says.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by IamJoseph, posted 11-02-2011 10:20 AM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by IamJoseph, posted 11-02-2011 10:30 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 199 of 306 (639606)
11-02-2011 10:44 AM
Reply to: Message 198 by IamJoseph
11-02-2011 10:30 AM


Re: look at what the God characters say
What you are doing is taking one verse out of context and ignoring the rest which was why I posted the parts YOU left out.
Here is the link to ALL of the Genesis 6 fable and here is a link to ALL of the Genesis 7 fable.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by IamJoseph, posted 11-02-2011 10:30 AM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 210 by IamJoseph, posted 11-02-2011 7:04 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 211 of 306 (639662)
11-02-2011 7:20 PM
Reply to: Message 210 by IamJoseph
11-02-2011 7:04 PM


Re: look at what the God characters say
HUH?
No, the flood story is not one fable, they are several fables.
The Genealogies are made up.
The foods are not listed in the flood myths.
London is introduced for the first time in its correct geographical location in the fable Historia Regum Britanniae.
The genealogies in the fable Historia Regum Britanniae are in error.
Sorry Charlie, you don't get the worm.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by IamJoseph, posted 11-02-2011 7:04 PM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 212 by IamJoseph, posted 11-02-2011 8:21 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 214 of 306 (639668)
11-02-2011 9:15 PM
Reply to: Message 212 by IamJoseph
11-02-2011 8:21 PM


Re: look at what the God characters say
iaj writes:
How do we know the 10 Cmands were given on a saturday - can you answer that fable!?
We don't that the Ten Commandments were given on a Saturday. In fact it's almost certain that the Ten Commandments were NEVER given, that Moses never existed, that the Exodus is just another myth.
It really is that simple.
And it still has NOTHING to do with what the King James Authorized Version of the Bible has to say about the flood myths.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 212 by IamJoseph, posted 11-02-2011 8:21 PM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 215 by IamJoseph, posted 11-02-2011 10:56 PM jar has replied
 Message 216 by IamJoseph, posted 11-02-2011 11:07 PM jar has seen this message but not replied
 Message 265 by Phat, posted 11-13-2011 3:30 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 229 of 306 (639725)
11-03-2011 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 215 by IamJoseph
11-02-2011 10:56 PM


Re: look at what the God characters say
Lots of unsupported assertions in there and also lots of falsehoods and utter nonsense.
When you post word salad like "The 10 C's were given on a saturday, by virtue of its calculus proof - something which cannot be improvised from millions of datings and numbers inerspersed of a 3000 year period, with no errors, in the absence of a super pc or record of that entire period. " it just shows everyone that you are simply making stuff up.
And it still has nothing to do with what the KJV says about the Noahic Flood.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by IamJoseph, posted 11-02-2011 10:56 PM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 230 by IamJoseph, posted 11-03-2011 10:54 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 231 of 306 (639731)
11-03-2011 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 230 by IamJoseph
11-03-2011 10:54 AM


Re: look at what the God characters say
Yet more rabbit holes and word salad.
And still nothing related to what the King James Authorized Version of the Bible has to say about the Noahic Flood myths.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 230 by IamJoseph, posted 11-03-2011 10:54 AM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 232 by IamJoseph, posted 11-03-2011 11:02 AM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(3)
Message 304 of 306 (641775)
11-22-2011 10:57 AM


My Summation
The flood myths in the Bible are a collection of at least two different traditions, perhaps of the two Confederacies that were Israel and Judah, perhaps of two different historical periods.
But in the case of the flood myths the two stories were simply mushed together with no effort to smooth over the inconsistencies and out right contradictions.
In both stories the God character decides that he failed in creating the people he hoped for and instead of just wiping the slate clean he picks one family, gives them some warning (how much warning depends on the version of the story), gives them instructions one what critters will be included (exactly how many of each critter and whether or not the family has to gather them or the critters will simply come themselves depends on the version of the story), instructs the family to build a big sucker of a boat and then floods the whole earth killing off most living things (exactly what gets killed again depends on the version of the story).
After awhile (exactly how long depends on which version of the story) the folk on the boat send out a raven or a dove (depending on which story) that brings back evidence that somehow there is still a tree living (no explanation ever offered on how that could be) and eventually the big sucker boat runs aground (where depends on the version of the story).
The main character announce "All ashore what's going ashore" and they get off, grow a vineyard and have a Pachanga (party hard).

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

  
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