Summations Only

Hi Joseph,It's refreshing to see that you can actually respond to a post with a little substance. The one you quoted giving the book, chapter, and verse as saying:

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Not to add to the commandments of the Torah, whether in the Written Law or in its interpretation received by tradition (Deut. 13:1)

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The actual text says:

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13:1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,

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Now either you can't read and understand English if you can't tell the difference in what the text says from what you assert it says or you are being deliberately dishonest with your assertions. But what you said Deut. 13:1 says does not exist in Deut. 13:1. Why must everything align with your misinterpertation of Genesis 7:1?Genesis 7:1 has to align with what is found in Genesis chapter 6.In Message 248 I gave you the following which you did not coment on. I don't know if I was talking over your head and you did not understand what was said or you were being deliberately deceptive.

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6:19 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.

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This verse tells Noah what animals are to be on the ark.ומכל־החי translation, and from all the life
מכל־בשר from all flesh
שנים two
מכל from all
תביא will come
אל־התבה־־להחית to the vessel to exist
אתד at you
זכר male
ונקבה and female
יהיו they existReading:
And from all the life from all flesh two from all will come to the vessel to exist at you male and female they exist.Please explain from that verse what creature on planet Earth would not come to the vessel to be able to exist?That is the reason I asked you for your definition's of 'all', and 'every'.I find no life form left out in either word.Now somehow you have convinced yourself that וכל־ביתד means domestic animals.וכל The first letter is and the second two letters is all.
־ puts the second noun in construct making it, of
ביתד your house or your family.It has nothing to do with any animals that Noah might own.
It has nothing to do with the region in which Noah might live. If the laws were given 857 years later they were not in effect and there was no such thing as a clean or not clean critter. They were just critters.And yes no one is answerable to a law that does not exist.So why were the critters answerable for a law that did not exist? Yes I can read I know they are there. My question is why are they there?The law was not in effect so there would be no clean or unclean critters. All would have been considered the same.The only reason they could be there is because someone later decided they should be there.Moses did not put them there or he would have also used them in chapter 6 when he said:

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6:19 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.

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6:20 Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.

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These are the critters that were supposed to come to the ark to be preserved to repopulate the Earth after the flood.There is no mention of critters of Noah's household or clean or unclean critters, just critters male and female of "ALL" life forms. But for these Gentiles who were never under the law which did not exist at that time there was no clean or unclean critters. I am not the only one refering to all the animals of the earth.The text plainly says:

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6:19 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.

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6:20 Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.

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EVERY LIVING THING OF
ALL FLESH
OF EVERY SORT
OF FOWLS AFTER THEIR KIND
OF CATTLE AFTER THEIR KIND
OF EVERY CREEPING THING OF THE EARTH AFTER HIS KINDTWO OF EVERY SORT SHALL COME UNTO THEE.So the text says ALL and EVERY.So name one critter that was left out of those two verses. The law did not exist in Noah's time.The law came 857 years after the flood. YesI know you attach it to Noah's household and ignore anything that goes against what you believe. So your definition of 'EVERY' is 'SOME'.So why didn't Moses use אחד which is one or some rather than כל which means all, whole, every, and totally everything.There is no room in the word Moses used to mean anything less that totality every living breathing critter on the entire dry land perishing as the total dry land was covered with the highest hill being covered with 15 cubits of water.Now you are welcome to your belief just remember the word is what is correct whether you are correct or not. You only ignore those that disagree with your worldview. I only named animals that would be in what you call Noah's household as they would all have to be domestic animals.I also used the number of clean animals that the law that did not exist for 857 years required.I was simply asking you for any additional animals you thought might be in the ark. I don't know how you can make such a statement or assertion.I have ask you several time for the length of a cubit and the source you got that information from and you present nothing.So the cubit is whatever you want it to be therefore the ark is as large or as small as you want it to be.The smallest known cubit is 17.5 inches not the foot you assert.Using the animals listed above and the 8 humans your ark would have to be 100 cubit's x 16.6 cubits by 14.5 cubits using the 17.5 cubit as the unit of measure.Your ark would consist of 1 floor and would contain 1 1/2 times the volume required for the animals and humans listed above.So why was Noah told to build an ark that was 300 cubits x 50 cubits x 30 cubits with 3 floors below the main deck?If I use feet for cubits I still get 13 times the cubit feet required to house the 8 humans and the animals listed above.Why would Noah be told to build such a huge ark for so few animals and humans?God Bless,

Hi DB,Long time no argue. Walking 20 miles a day for 120 years he could have went a long way.
876,000 miles,He could have walked 1 mile a day and have gone 365 miles in 1 year.Besides if Noah was to have only his family and animals the ark required would have been required to be 100 cubit's x 16.6 cubits by 14.5 cubits using the 17.5 cubit as the unit of measure.So it would have been foolish to build an ark 300 cubits x 50 cubits x 30 cubits having 30 acres of storage (over 4 million cubic feet), taking 120 years to build.But Joseph believes it was a local flood and has to produce evidence for such as that is what we are told by those who discuss the evidence here have argued. They say a global flood is impossible and did not happen. So Joseph has to be reconciled with that information.I am glad to see you believe the text says the entire dry land was covered with water and only the life forms on the ark survived.That is what the text says whether it is right or wrong. But there are people that just can't accept what the text says as it does not fit in their worldview.The text we have studied in this thread also says the earth was divided in the days of Peleg. Gen. 10:25.The text studied also says the people was scattered over all the face of the earth while building the tower of Babel. Genesis 11:8.That explains why all the nations have a flood story.The division of the land after the flood and the scattering of the people explains how the people and animals got to all the different places they were found.All the dry land being in one place prior to the flood is what accounts for the idea that all the land mass was in one place at one time and so it was called Pangea.God Bless,

Thanks to all who participated in this thread.I might not agree with you or your interpertations of the events that took place. But everybody is welcome to have an opinionLet me point out one thing about the flood story that no one ever mentions. In the scheme of things today and what we are to do as followers of God it is only a story to show how God can protect us if we let him.There has been much said here at EvC about how the ark could not float, it would tear apart from the waves, it was not large enough to hold all the animals to repopulate the earth.No one knows how rough the water was it could have been as slick as a pealed onion.Some have said it would leak when the text says:

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Genesis 7:18 And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.

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If it went on the face of the waters and the Spirit of God went on the face of the waters in Genesis 1:2 there would have been nothing under the water.I have asked many times for a list of the animals that would have to be on the ark to do the job of preserving all life forms on earth today. As of this writing no one has attempted to give me a list. But they assert the ark was not big enough to hold them. How does anyone know the ark was not large enough to hold 2 of all life forms on the earth, if they can't make a list? Besides that no one can tell me how large the ark was as that would be determined by the cubit that Noah used and there were giants in the land at that time and he might have used a cubit using the measurment from the elbow to the tip of the middle finger of one of them, as the cubit to build the ark by.PD is always making a big deal out of the word earth not having a capital letter to begin with. Well the Hebrew that the Torah was written in had no capital letters at all. So any capitals in the old testament was supplied by translators.There was no verses, chapters and books in the Torah, only 1 book existed.Now as far as IAJ and myself ever agreeing on what the Bible says that is about as likely to happen as all scientist agreeing on how, or if the the universe began to exist.Now as to what the KJV Bible says about the flood of Noah.There has been much said in this thread about who and what was to be in the ark so let the words speak for themselves.
Genesis 6:19ומכל־החי translation, and from all the life
מכל־בשר from all flesh
שנים two
מכל from all
תביא will come
אל־התבה־־להחית to the vessel to exist
אתד at you
זכר male
ונקבה and female
יהיו they existReading:
And from all the life from all flesh two from all will come to the vessel to exist at you male and female they exist.This says all life.
From all Flesh,
2 would come to Noah to exist.Nobody attempted to refute the text with anything other than assertions and hand waving.Everybody seems to have a definition of earth and are not willing to accept God's definition of earth.God's definition:

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1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

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1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

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God called the dry land ארץ = earth.

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Genesis 6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

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The Hebrew word ארץ is used in every verse where earth appears in chapter 6 and 7.If ארץ meant all the dry land in Genesis 1:10 it meant all the dry land in chapter 6 and 7. The word did not change.IAJ is hung up on the word household.The words Moses recorded did not have household anywhere in it.The Hebrew word בית in Genesis 7:1 translated as house and in other places it is translated household, as well as family.So the word household was not in the Old Testament Hebrew text. The English word household used in Genesis 45:11 was provided by translators.The words in the Bible has to be studied in context.If at some point IAJ would like to refute what the text says I would participate in a thread to do so as long as it is confined to the text.If someone would like to give me a list of life forms that would have to be on the ark to produce what we have today I will see if it will fit in the ark. At present I have 30 acres of storage space.In conclusion I would mention these important points.God called the dry land in Genesis 1:10 earth.The same author wrote chapter 6, and 7 so all the dry land should be what the author was talking about being covered with water.So all the dry land under the whole heaven was covered with water. Genesis 7:19The text says there was a male and a female on the ark of all creatures who had the breath of life in them. Genesis 6:17.Those are some of the main points the Bible covers concerning the flood of Noah.God Bless,