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Author | Topic: Mormon Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
crashfrog Member (Idle past 1467 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Yes, the mark of Cain was a skin of blackness. We’ve firmly established that. That's not even close to Biblical, just so you know. The mark is on his forehead, not his entire skin.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
quote: The problems with both Islam and Mormonism are as follows: 1. Neither the BOM or the Quran, the so called holy books of these religions contains any fulfilled prophecy that the Bible didn't first provide to show them to be supernatural. 2. Neither of these Johnny come lately books provide anything whatsoever in them to help us in this life or the life to come that the Bible didn't first provide. I've challenged Mormons on many occasions that if they could refute this I would become a Mormon. (I knew I was safe.) 3. Both books are dependent on the testimony of one author whereas the Bible was authored by about 40 different men from all walks of life, both rich and poor, educated and non-educated from kings to fishermen with a common thread of the history of the world from beginning to end (some future}, so far with all prophecies in tact. 4. Both prophets borrowed from the Bible, using distorted plageristic material. 5. Both prophets contradict the Bible in much of their doctrine. 6. Both religions require membership/adherance to their human organization to receive the spiritual benefits of the religion, whereas Biblical Christianity requires no adherance or membership in any one human organization to receive the benefits and salvation promised in the Bible, though some might try to teach otherwise.
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 734 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
To quote the prophet Jacob, Brethren, adieu. Dammit! I'd have liked to see Otter and Joralex in a debate about the Really Real Truth (TM)!
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
quote: I'm not aware that Cain was suppose to have either a mark on his forehead or black skin. Where do you arrive at this mark? The races were not created, imo, until the Tower of Babel which came later at the time of the creation of different tongues, each tongue going to their separate locations. Likely it took some time for the pigment of blacks to darken. Something physical evidently did occur supernaturally with the genes of the various languages at that time by God. [This message has been edited by buzsaw, 11-04-2003]
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Dan Carroll Inactive Member |
quote: This is the closest I can find: And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold.And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him. {A note from Adminnemooseus - There exists the topic "Old Habits Die Hard (The "mark" on Cain)"} [This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 11-04-2003]
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Amlodhi Inactive Member |
buzsaw is absolutely certain that the Spirit is guiding him in the ways of Truth.
theOtter is absolutely certain that the Spirit is guiding him in the ways of Truth. Numerous other religious groups are absolutely certain that the Spirit is guiding them in the ways of Truth. IOW, they each claim that it is only they who "know what salt tastes like." This thread absolutely proves only one thing: People not only can and do fool themselves into believing that they are Spirit led, but they are also incapable of recognizing their own delusion. Amlodhi
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PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
So your answer is that since the LDS church has fooled a lot of people that the Book of Mormon must be true ? And then you go on to repeat the claims of Mormon Apologists - none of them yet supported - as if they were fact.
The fact is that mainstream archaeologists (and even some Mormons !) have found no sign of the Book of Mormon civilisations. Mormon apologists typically refer to things like the Bat Creek Stone - while not mentioning the fact that if the stone is genuine and if script IS "Paleo-Hebrew" (i.e. Canaanite or Phoenician) - and both are far from certain - the letter forms are closest to those of the first century BC to first century AD, far too late to have anything to do with the Nephites or Lamanites (who would have been using Joseph Smith's fictional "Reformed Egyptian" instead).
The Bat Creek Stone: Judeans in Tennessee?" The Bat Creek Stone: A Final Statement" It is obivous that one of us has made his mind up and will not hear the truth - and it is equally obvious that it is you.
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IrishRockhound Member (Idle past 4436 days) Posts: 569 From: Ireland Joined: |
Amen to that.
I would say that they are free to delude themselves any way they wish, as long as they don't try to get me involved. By the way - I've been very impressed with theOtter. We need more of his kind of intelligent and informed debate, and less of the nonsense that Joralex likes to toss around. The Rock Hound
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nator Member (Idle past 2169 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
I don't have time tonight, unfortunately, to get into your good, well-written post, but I will say a couple of things.
Are you telling me that women can rise as high in the LDS church governance as any man? I have never, ever heard of LDS women being able to attain priesthood in the Mormon Church (except briefly about 100 years ago), and everything I have ever read confirms this. Can you link to information which supports what you claim? According to the several LDS women I have spoken with, their expected role is to have babies, raise them and run their households. They basically imply that to be a good Mormon woman they are not supposed to want the priesthood or to be involved with the governance of the Church beyond passing on what the always all-male bishops and prophets declare as doctrine in an educational role. Also, WRT to my "asking God", in the passage you linked to is states that one myst do so with "faith in Jesus". Well, if I already have "faith in Jesus", then by definition I already believe, so asking God anything seems redundant. I was without belief. I spoke to God. Nothing happened, even though you promised it would. If you have to start out believing in God before speaking to God to get God to answer, then that's not really the same as what I am asking for. You have now put out the rather unreasonable demand that I believe in God first, before I will get an answer. [This message has been edited by schrafinator, 11-04-2003] [This message has been edited by schrafinator, 11-04-2003]
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nator Member (Idle past 2169 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: quote: If there's no way to externally test to determine that you are lying to yourself, then you actually can't say that you "know." You "believe" but that's not at all the same as "knowing". For instance, there are many people who are just as passionate, sure, and dedicated to their belief as you are who are utterly convinced that they and/or their children and loved ones have been abducted by space aliens. They have just as much evidence as you do for your belief. Should we therefore believe them as well? [This message has been edited by schrafinator, 11-04-2003]
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nator Member (Idle past 2169 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
The Book of Mormon and DNA studies
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mike the wiz Member Posts: 4752 From: u.k Joined: |
'I was without belief. I spoke to God. Nothing happened, even though you promised it would.'
Schraff, if you believe and know God has heard you it does work (do you think I'm lying). Why should there be any special cases, if there ARE believers?
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
quote: Fundamentalists don't go by any spirit perse. We go by what is written. In the case of the Bible, the Holy Spirit inspired the writings of the book. The Spirit does help us in giving understanding in the light of all the contexts relating to a scripture and gives us a spiritually inclined mind. The danger in going by a spirit is that there are many spirits who are evil and lead to falacy and deception. If I see a prophecy in the Bible I look at history and current events for fulfillment. The Spirit has already done his work when the prophecy was given. All I need do is look for the fulfillment. That's religiously scientific factual stuff. The Holy Spirit doesn't need to help me read my history book and newspaper. I can do that and decide whether to accept or reject those recorded and observed facts. Isn't this how true science is suppose to work? The Bible covers historical stuff only about 6000 years. The problem with modern science is they're claiming to know what conditions were in place millions to billions of years old and that takes a lotta speculation in interpreting dating data.
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mike the wiz Member Posts: 4752 From: u.k Joined: |
Buz,
What about you. Do your prayers get answered? and does your faith usually affect this?
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
quote: There are some other conditions besides faith to be met for Biblical answers to prayer. Don't ask me to document here as that's not the subject here, but check it out. I don't see why one who badmouths the true god Jehovah should expect to get anything from him without repentance to begin with. [This message has been edited by buzsaw, 11-04-2003]
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