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Author Topic:   Instinctual Behavior Vs Intelligent Decisions
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 13 of 83 (643749)
12-11-2011 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Modulous
12-11-2011 3:42 AM


making unintelligent decisions
Much that is often considered "instinctual" real is learned behavior. I'm not as sure that "making intelligent decisions is the instinctive behaviour in at least one species on this planet and probably more" as you seem to be.
Living things do not exist in a vacuum; behaviors do have consequences. But we see examples of at least one species on this planet and maybe more making unintelligent decisions pretty regularly.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Modulous, posted 12-11-2011 3:42 AM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Modulous, posted 12-12-2011 11:20 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 17 of 83 (643845)
12-12-2011 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Modulous
12-12-2011 11:20 AM


Re: making unintelligent decisions
Equivocating on 'intelligent'? I don't mean 'well considered', or 'smart choices'. Obviously we are not perfect decision makers, and often make poor decisions. By intelligent I mean decisions that are arrived at through simulation, consideration, introspection etc as oppose to decisions that are made near instantly through basal instinctive reactions.
But that is exactly the problem.
First, humans in general seem to make many decisions without simulation, consideration, introspection etc.
Second, many decisions can be learned and practiced until they become "instinctual".

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Modulous, posted 12-12-2011 11:20 AM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Modulous, posted 12-12-2011 11:33 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 19 of 83 (643849)
12-12-2011 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Modulous
12-12-2011 11:33 AM


Re: making unintelligent decisions
So doesn't the evidence seems to point to making decisions based on simulation, consideration, introspection etc not being instinctual but yet another learned trait?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Modulous, posted 12-12-2011 11:33 AM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Modulous, posted 12-12-2011 11:48 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 21 of 83 (643854)
12-12-2011 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Modulous
12-12-2011 11:48 AM


Re: making unintelligent decisions
I'm sorry but that doesn't make any sense.
All that shows is that we have certain physical capabilities; I don't see why that makes anything instinctual.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Modulous, posted 12-12-2011 11:48 AM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Modulous, posted 12-12-2011 12:30 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 28 of 83 (643889)
12-12-2011 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Modulous
12-12-2011 12:30 PM


Re: making unintelligent decisions
So yeah - if we regard instinct as being the thing that our brains do naturally, without explicit learning, then yes, making intelligent decisions is instinctual.
Sorry but I still don't get your use of the word "intelligent decisions" as being instinctive; it seems to have no meaning. How is your use of "intelligent decisions" different than just the single word "decisions"?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Modulous, posted 12-12-2011 12:30 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Modulous, posted 12-13-2011 1:19 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 34 of 83 (643969)
12-13-2011 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Modulous
12-13-2011 1:19 PM


Re: making unintelligent decisions
You don't have kids and have never been around kids have you?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Modulous, posted 12-13-2011 1:19 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Modulous, posted 12-13-2011 5:24 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 36 of 83 (643977)
12-13-2011 5:36 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Modulous
12-13-2011 5:24 PM


Re: making unintelligent decisions
Sorry but all the evidence I have seen shows that humans do NOT make decisions after thinking through the possible consequences of each of the perceived possible options is something that happens whether we want to or not. In fact they make most decisions without consideration at all.
So far I simply totally disagree with your position.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Modulous, posted 12-13-2011 5:24 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Modulous, posted 12-13-2011 5:46 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 38 of 83 (643981)
12-13-2011 6:05 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Modulous
12-13-2011 5:46 PM


Re: making unintelligent decisions
Of course I have never denied that fact, the issue is whether it is a learned behavior or instinctual.
If you have ever had children or spent much time around children, you would see that decision making, the idea that there are options or consequences or that you think things through are learned.
Granted much of the hardware needed for such things is there, but not from the beginning. We grow and our brains evolve as we grow, and certain parts, particularly those parts needed to learn decision making just ain't there for a long, long time.
Kids stick things in electric sockets.
Kids find that "Billy did it" is a valid reason.
Kids understand they had to do it because they were "double dared".
Many adults are not really much different and do not make intelligent decisions, decision they have considered or thought through.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Modulous, posted 12-13-2011 5:46 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Modulous, posted 12-13-2011 7:07 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 40 of 83 (643991)
12-13-2011 7:34 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Modulous
12-13-2011 7:07 PM


Re: making unintelligent decisions
You can make up all the definitions you want but I still disagree.
No one uses intelligence.
It is not a commodity or hammer.
We use our brain, and we learn how to do that.
Sorry.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Modulous, posted 12-13-2011 7:07 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Modulous, posted 12-19-2011 12:34 PM jar has replied
 Message 49 by Tangle, posted 12-19-2011 3:32 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 43 of 83 (644600)
12-19-2011 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Modulous
12-19-2011 12:34 PM


Re: making unintelligent decisions
I don't see much evidence of that unless you are reducing it to a conscious decision of which parts of the brain to use, and I do not see that as instinctual at all.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Modulous, posted 12-19-2011 12:34 PM Modulous has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 45 of 83 (644602)
12-19-2011 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Modulous
12-19-2011 12:40 PM


Re: making unintelligent decisions
I do not see evidence that we inherit our intelligence, sorry.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Modulous, posted 12-19-2011 12:40 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by Modulous, posted 12-19-2011 1:25 PM jar has replied
 Message 47 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-19-2011 1:30 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 48 of 83 (644620)
12-19-2011 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Modulous
12-19-2011 1:25 PM


Re: making unintelligent decisions
Yes, I know that is what you say.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Modulous, posted 12-19-2011 1:25 PM Modulous has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 50 of 83 (644625)
12-19-2011 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Tangle
12-19-2011 3:32 PM


Re: making unintelligent decisions
Really?
Have you ever been around a child?
I'm sorry but you guys are really getting silly I fear and trivializing the term "Intelligence" to the point it has about as much meaning as saying "we walking on our feet instinctively".
Sure the hardware is (kinda) there and that is trivially true. We cannot walk with our ears or think with our noses but we learn to think by working at it, by trial and error, by practice and failure. Just as we learn to control the muscles and concentration needed enable us to use our feet to walk, we learn to think, to consider, to make choices and decisions.
I do not see evidence that "intelligence" is instinctual.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Tangle, posted 12-19-2011 3:32 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Tangle, posted 12-19-2011 4:22 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
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