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Author Topic:   Evidence to expect given a designer
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2133 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 49 of 373 (644381)
12-17-2011 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by Chuck77
12-17-2011 6:41 AM


Unintelligent Non-design
How about you show how DNA was produced unintelligently out of nowhere and we'll work on showing how it was produced SN. The first one to the finish line wins.
That's an easy one:
Making Genetic Networks Operate Robustly: Unintelligent Non-design Suffices, by Professor Garrett Odell (online lecture):
Page not found | UW Video
Abstract: Mathematical computer models of two ancient and famous genetic networks act early in embryos of many different species to determine the body plan. Models revealed these networks to be astonishingly robust, despite their 'unintelligent design.' This examines the use of mathematical models to shed light on how biological, pattern-forming gene networks operate and how thoughtless, haphazard, non-design produces networks whose robustness seems inspired, begging the question what else unintelligent non-design might be capable of.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Chuck77, posted 12-17-2011 6:41 AM Chuck77 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by shadow71, posted 12-17-2011 5:04 PM Coyote has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2133 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 56 of 373 (644426)
12-17-2011 9:11 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by shadow71
12-17-2011 5:04 PM


Re: Unintelligent Non-design
You didn't even listen to that on-line lecture, did you?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by shadow71, posted 12-17-2011 5:04 PM shadow71 has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2133 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(3)
Message 64 of 373 (644499)
12-18-2011 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Percy
12-18-2011 11:28 AM


How archaeologists do it...
NoNukes already provided the answer. I'll just add that if it were really true that archaeologists seek "the effect of intelligent tool use" it would mean they're able to distinguish it from "unintelligent tool use," whatever that is. But of course that's not what they do. They seek signs of what people do, intelligent or not, from coprolites, ancient footpaths and campfires to spearheads, buildings, housewares and artwork.
To archaeologists, artifacts are things made or used by people.
Detecting this manufacture is often easy, but detecting use is sometimes impossible.
We study tools from archaeological sites and ethnographic settings where these tools are still in use in order to learn their characteristics; we learn to replicate those tools, and we study rocks and other materials from natural occurrences such as stream beds. From this we can come up with general rules that cover most situations. For example, stone tools almost always have bifacial flaking.
But what is difficult is the pretty rock that was brought back and used for a door stop or paperweight. Although used by people, and thus considered to be artifacts, these may not have any use wear or other characteristics of an artifact.
But, pertaining to the subject, we go about these studies systematically, working from the known to the unknown, and working from evidence.
This is the opposite of "design studies" which assume the conclusion and then scratch about for any evidence to support that conclusion.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Percy, posted 12-18-2011 11:28 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2133 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(2)
Message 81 of 373 (644633)
12-19-2011 5:05 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by mike the wiz
12-19-2011 4:41 PM


Re: My one comment
I think it is an important point to say that If there is a designer we would expect to see good designs.
Knees.
Lower backs.
Routing of waste disposal through the sex organs.
Case closed.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by mike the wiz, posted 12-19-2011 4:41 PM mike the wiz has not replied

  
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