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Author Topic:   Evolution is True Because Life Needs It
Invader Scooch
Junior Member (Idle past 4415 days)
Posts: 11
From: Infiltrating Earth
Joined: 12-17-2011


Message 1 of 188 (644454)
12-17-2011 2:36 AM


This is my first post, so just to give a little background on myself, I am a freshman in College, touching basics, but interested in education, Geology, and Marine sciences. I have just completed a Physical Geology course.
I have long been steeped into the debate of Evolution vs. Creation. I live in an area of the country where it is not hard to have said debate. Needless to say, it has generally invaded my teenage years.
I have a naturalist for a grandmother, so my love for the biological and geological sciences drives everyday routine, where it be a neat bug on the window or a cool fossil I found in a parking lot.
I love science and consider myself a enthusiast at marine biology and oceanography (especially sharks), Geology and Entomology, with a basic grasp of most other sciences.
I am not perfect, and neither will my argument be, so please be intelligent with your post.
For eons this debate has turned into a circus of people shouting at people with no understanding. To a lot of people I have debated, it is just a game. However, I have pulled myself out of that style and have done my homework. Here I present my first argument for why there is evolution.
The answer to the above statement is simply because life needs it.
To elaborate, I must point out a phenomenon that our universe is irrefutably wrapped in, change. Right now, as I am typing this topic, my breathing is producing more CO2 in the room I am in. It mixes and interacts with other gases in the room (obviously in a minute way, unless something big is about to happen). As I press the keys on my keyboard, dead skin cells are falling off and minutely changing the weight of the key. The paint on said keyboard is slowly, microscopically wearing off.
We can go bigger. In my fish tank, the denizens of the tank are causing the tank to slowly become either more alkaline or acidic, making it necessary for me to change the water sometime this month. On the street outside, there is most likely a bug eating another bug, causing a change in both the victim and the victee's body as the victim appeases the victee's body metabolism; juices in the arthropod's stomach prepare to digest the hapless prey. Every day, the world is not the same as it was yesterday. Zillions of organisms are born, and zillions die. Continents slowly move around on the mantle, bumping and swaying, and maybe even causing an earthquake or two. As each day goes by, the sea is engorged by melting ice from glaciers and ice sheets, as well as depleted by the sun's rays. Out in space, stars and planets are constantly swirling in the cosmos, who knows when one might explode or collide.
The point? The universe has one constant factor that affects all things in it, and that is change. Delta. Triangle. And life is no different.
If we go by the Creation model, all life was just plopped down as it was with no mechanism to adhere to the change, no way to counteract its effects. Evolution provides this mechanism, provides the way to prosperity.
Life is always changing, minutely to the human eye, but just as if I decided to splurge on candy bars, I wouldn't be fat instantly (though I'd sure feel that way), but over time, if I were to lead the sedentary lifestyle of the common couch potato, in a few weeks I would cause the bathroom scale to cry. The same is true for life.
Edited by Admin, : Change title, was "A State of Change"
Edited by Invader Scooch, : More detail in my background.
Edited by Invader Scooch, : Tidying.
Edited by AdminPhat, : Title change per request

My tallest, I will fill the Earth with snacks!

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by AdminPhat, posted 12-17-2011 8:45 AM Invader Scooch has replied
 Message 5 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-18-2011 3:16 AM Invader Scooch has not replied
 Message 6 by DWIII, posted 12-18-2011 3:20 AM Invader Scooch has not replied
 Message 7 by Pressie, posted 12-18-2011 7:20 AM Invader Scooch has not replied
 Message 8 by Percy, posted 12-18-2011 8:44 AM Invader Scooch has replied
 Message 10 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-20-2011 10:02 AM Invader Scooch has replied
 Message 17 by mike the wiz, posted 01-03-2012 8:08 AM Invader Scooch has not replied

  
Invader Scooch
Junior Member (Idle past 4415 days)
Posts: 11
From: Infiltrating Earth
Joined: 12-17-2011


Message 3 of 188 (644456)
12-18-2011 1:37 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminPhat
12-17-2011 8:45 AM


Re: Because Life Needs It
Hi there, thanks for looking over my topic.
I am a tad bit iffy about the title change.....I am trying to make the title inquisitive so a wider audience will look at the article, however I could see the title Because Life Needs It working, if you feel its better.
I have tidied up the paragraphs and gone into a little more detail about my background, however I am not sure about where to tidy up the argument. It has been swimming in my noggin for the past few years.
Thank you for looking, Scooch.

My tallest, I will fill the Earth with snacks!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by AdminPhat, posted 12-17-2011 8:45 AM AdminPhat has not replied

  
Invader Scooch
Junior Member (Idle past 4415 days)
Posts: 11
From: Infiltrating Earth
Joined: 12-17-2011


Message 9 of 188 (644527)
12-18-2011 6:52 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Percy
12-18-2011 8:44 AM


A general reply
I will not tout my knowledge on evolution, other than to say that I am well versed and future topics of mine with show that.
And to Percy, it does not matter whether the arguement is simple or complex, it only matters that it serves its purpose and the general populace can understand it. Starting from the simple beginning is a good thing.
To Dr. Adequate (reminds me of a Cat Scratch episode) Thinking on your comment reminds me of Carntosaurus. If we look at the tiny limbs of Carntosaurus, even small for a large therapod, we can hardly see them as useful. Yet they were a stepping stone, going toward the purpose of survival. Needless to say, there are not many Carntosaurus remains. Not sure if I just elaborated on your comment but I am not too sure, other than the paragraph above, I really understand your point on where the change I was refering to and usefullness you were refering to coincide with one another.
And on Creationist, I had a Creation-nut as a Chemistry Teacher last year. He was an excellent class-staller, but he was generally the complete polar opposite of my arguement. Creationist are not stupid, they just fail to know what science is.
I hope that clears up some confusion, and doesn't create more.
THANKS FOR COMMENTING! KEEP 'EM COMIN!

My tallest, I will fill the Earth with snacks!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Percy, posted 12-18-2011 8:44 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Invader Scooch
Junior Member (Idle past 4415 days)
Posts: 11
From: Infiltrating Earth
Joined: 12-17-2011


Message 11 of 188 (644925)
12-21-2011 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by New Cat's Eye
12-20-2011 10:02 AM


While I do agree there is no one model for Creation, I still need a Creationist to reply. All the responses have generally been Evolution peoples.
If you are on the Creation side of things, please respond.
And to Dr. Adequate on the usefullness of change, it serves its purpose.
And the Micro-Macro evolution debate is cute until you realize that Macro Evolution is just eons of Micro-Evolution added together.
Edited by Invader Scooch, : No reason given.

My tallest, I will fill the Earth with snacks!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-20-2011 10:02 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-21-2011 4:01 PM Invader Scooch has not replied
 Message 13 by RAZD, posted 12-22-2011 11:58 PM Invader Scooch has not replied
 Message 14 by Percy, posted 12-24-2011 5:59 AM Invader Scooch has not replied
 Message 15 by Portillo, posted 01-03-2012 7:02 AM Invader Scooch has replied

  
Invader Scooch
Junior Member (Idle past 4415 days)
Posts: 11
From: Infiltrating Earth
Joined: 12-17-2011


Message 51 of 188 (652720)
02-15-2012 4:50 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Percy
02-15-2012 10:17 AM


Wow
I step out for a while and look at what happens! Its like not weeding your garden for a few weeks lol
Thanks for all the replys, I have been very busy these past months.
I have had only time to skim over everyone's replies, and I really have only one response:
Just as a cell is a foundation of all life, so is there a fundamental foundation, a basic unit per say, for the process of evolution. The change of a finch to a short beak to a finch with a long beak is just one of these units.
The process is long and no one can really say it hasn't happened. Most fossils showing major change (synapsids, whales, dinosaurs) are spaced out millions of years from each other. While most observable human mutations are bad, over time they may lead to a new form if isolated from the rest of the world.
Take for instance, the Amish. In breeding among their community has caused an above average cases of six-fingered people in that community. That is simply because they have isolated themselves and their gene pool.
Another good example is the dodo bird, the poster child for extinct species. This animal lived on an isolated island where it was the top creature and had virtually no competition, so it lost its capability of flight over succesive generations and walked around, making it easy pickings for the people who would overhunt it. (Other islands, like New Zealand, have similar cases).
Evolution is purely a product of the enviroment and its stresses.
While one change of a beak on a finch does not seem significant to the casual observer, it may lead to some major evolutionary change down the road.
There. I posted. Happy, Percy? lol

My tallest, I will fill the Earth with snacks!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Percy, posted 02-15-2012 10:17 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Invader Scooch
Junior Member (Idle past 4415 days)
Posts: 11
From: Infiltrating Earth
Joined: 12-17-2011


Message 61 of 188 (653275)
02-19-2012 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by Percy
02-18-2012 8:05 AM


This is such an interesting discussion, but it ultimately is sidetracked from what the thread is ultimately all about.
The reason biblical creation is not literal is because, as I said before, it provides no mechanism for survival. All things in the universe are constantly changing; for life not to do so would mean we wouldn't exist.
Ultimately, there is no one firm scientific model for creation; hence to scientifically explain it is not logical.
Another stab at it is simply the number of animals filling in similar niches. Take for instance, the sauropod dinosaurs. Dozens have been discovered, and they all generally did the same thing: Graze.
Matter of fact, I recently saw a program on a newer sauropod, Nigersaurus. This sauropod was built simply to sit there and graze. the animal's head was pointed downwards, and the mouth was very wide with sharp teeth on the end. And that is jut one. These animals had a great impact on the fauna of the land; for modern day and previous herbivores to compete and prosper as they did (Auroks and related, rhinos, horses, giraffes, wildebeast, herbivoruous synapsids). Hence the ideas the biblical creationist suggest would create a great ecological imbalance.
Thats my two cents for now.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by Percy, posted 02-18-2012 8:05 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by markl67, posted 02-20-2012 9:37 PM Invader Scooch has not replied

  
Invader Scooch
Junior Member (Idle past 4415 days)
Posts: 11
From: Infiltrating Earth
Joined: 12-17-2011


Message 62 of 188 (653276)
02-19-2012 5:01 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Portillo
01-03-2012 7:02 AM


To Mr. Portilo, That is kinda a classical biblical creationist argument that sidetracks from the issue at hand.
If you could provide me with a good scientific model for biblical creation, not just one saying "evolution couldn't do this so this had to happen" like I often get from bc's I would appreciate it.
I really appreciate you participating in my thread! Thank you!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Portillo, posted 01-03-2012 7:02 AM Portillo has not replied

  
Invader Scooch
Junior Member (Idle past 4415 days)
Posts: 11
From: Infiltrating Earth
Joined: 12-17-2011


Message 67 of 188 (653410)
02-20-2012 8:32 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Portillo
02-20-2012 6:59 AM


Re: Prompt for Portillo...
Still ignoring the topic at hand.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Portillo, posted 02-20-2012 6:59 AM Portillo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Portillo, posted 02-20-2012 10:19 PM Invader Scooch has not replied

  
Invader Scooch
Junior Member (Idle past 4415 days)
Posts: 11
From: Infiltrating Earth
Joined: 12-17-2011


Message 119 of 188 (653871)
02-25-2012 3:16 AM


Well, I came to an Evolution vs. Creation forum, what else should I expect.
We as human beings are naturally draw to conflict in all forms, whether it is shooting one another in real life, or in a video game, or in any other game, in the buisness world, and in just plain living.
EVC does not escape the bounds of these tenants, and to come here expecting people wanting to flesh out new ideas instead of arguing over the old appears to have been a foolish propisition.
Never the less, thank you for participating.
Edited by Invader Scooch, : Ambiguity

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by Percy, posted 02-25-2012 9:21 AM Invader Scooch has not replied

  
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