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Author
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Topic: Moral high ground
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Chuck77
Inactive Member
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Message 16 of 318 (644566)
12-19-2011 7:13 AM
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Reply to: Message 13 by frako
12-19-2011 3:01 AM
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Re: Nobody does Genocide better Christianity
Holy copy and paste batman. Worst ever. Longest ever. That should be some sort of fine or something. So that settles it? Hitler was a Bible believing Christian who believes in the same God as I/we do and was doing the work of God? My goodness how can we possibly go over everything you copied and pasted? How? That really is quite rediculous what you did right there. Can you summarize your argument in a paragraph or two for all the people who don't feel like reading a frikkin book on a debate forum?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 13 by frako, posted 12-19-2011 3:01 AM | | frako has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 18 by Tangle, posted 12-19-2011 7:45 AM | | Chuck77 has not replied | | | Message 24 by frako, posted 12-19-2011 11:56 AM | | Chuck77 has not replied |
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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 755 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: 11-12-2002
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Message 17 of 318 (644567)
12-19-2011 7:15 AM
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Reply to: Message 15 by Chuck77
12-19-2011 4:55 AM
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Re: Nobody does Genocide better Christianity
And Chuck, you gotta know that Phat can use sarcasm with the best of 'em.
"The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails." H L Mencken
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 15 by Chuck77, posted 12-19-2011 4:55 AM | | Chuck77 has not replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.7
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Message 18 of 318 (644569)
12-19-2011 7:45 AM
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Reply to: Message 16 by Chuck77
12-19-2011 7:13 AM
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Re: Nobody does Genocide better Christianity
Can you summarize your argument in a paragraph or two for all the people who don't feel like reading a frikkin book on a debate forum? Hitler either was a Christian or he was pretending to be one. Done.
Life, don't talk to me about life.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 16 by Chuck77, posted 12-19-2011 7:13 AM | | Chuck77 has not replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 822 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 19 of 318 (644571)
12-19-2011 8:06 AM
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Reply to: Message 18 by Tangle
12-19-2011 7:45 AM
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Re: Nobody does Genocide better Christianity
Hitler either was a Christian Since every single christian will say that every other christian is "not the real kind of christian", there must be no such thing as a christian. Well, since there are these people called christians, the "real" ones are any one of them who simply say as much. We can't even EVER get any two christians on this board to agree on enough to say that either one of them is a "true" christian. Ergo, hitler was a goddamned christian. Deal with it bible thumpers. He might not have acted in accordance with the american bastardization of xtianity, he is a christian. Hell, the motherfucker even had the catholic church on his side.
Put the FSM back in Chrifsmas
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 18 by Tangle, posted 12-19-2011 7:45 AM | | Tangle has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 21 by Tangle, posted 12-19-2011 8:25 AM | | hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied |
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Message 20 of 318 (644572)
12-19-2011 8:16 AM
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Reply to: Message 15 by Chuck77
12-19-2011 4:55 AM
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Re: Nobody does Genocide better Christianity
Phat, you gotta know at your long time here at the forum that this response doesn't work with non-Christians. "No true scottsman" will be the response. People know Hitler wasn't actually doing Gods work by killing the Jews, who incidently were Gods chosen people, duh. Apparently people didn't know that. Was Martin Luther, father of Protestantism, a true Christian?
So we are even at fault in not avenging all this innocent blood of our Lord and of the Christians which they shed for three hundred years after the destruction of Jerusalem, and the blood of the children they have shed since then (which still shines forth from their eyes and their skin). We are at fault in not slaying them. --- Martin Luther, On The Lies of the Jews Since Martin Luther closed his eyes, no such son of our people has appeared again. It has been decided that we shall be the first to witness his reappearance ... I think the time is past when one may not say the names of Hitler and Luther in the same breath. They belong together; they are of the same old stamp. --- Bernhard Rust, Hitler's Minister of Education, quoted in the Volkischer Beobachter, August 25, 1933.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 15 by Chuck77, posted 12-19-2011 4:55 AM | | Chuck77 has not replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.7
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Re: Nobody does Genocide better Christianity
Well, since there are these people called christians, the "real" ones are any one of them who simply say as much. I'm pretty much with you on that in that art is defined as something made by an artist and an artist is anyone who says he makes art. Of course Hitler could have been lying about being a Christian in order to further his political ends but as we can't actually tell the difference between a 'real' Christian and a pretend Christian, it's safest to take him at face value. btw Catholics aren't Christians apparently; which must come as a bit of a shock to them all.
Life, don't talk to me about life.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 19 by hooah212002, posted 12-19-2011 8:06 AM | | hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 22 of 318 (644584)
12-19-2011 10:28 AM
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Reply to: Message 12 by Phat
12-19-2011 12:03 AM
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Re: Nobody does Genocide better Christianity
Of course Hitler was a Christian. That is not even subject to debate and anyone denying that fact is simply being willfully ignorant. I'm not sure if the US killed more people than either Nazi Germany or the USSR, but the US has certainly been far more efficient and effective in committing genocide. But what I said is "Nobody does genocide better than Christianity" and I'm not sure how anyone could possible even debate that fact.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 12 by Phat, posted 12-19-2011 12:03 AM | | Phat has not replied |
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nwr
Member Posts: 6409 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: 08-08-2005 Member Rating: 5.3
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Message 23 of 318 (644587)
12-19-2011 10:33 AM
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Reply to: Message 14 by Phat
12-19-2011 4:07 AM
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Re: Nobody does Genocide better Christianity
Phat writes:yes, but he obviously was not a real Christian
Ah, yes. The "No True Scotsman Christian" copout. We see that in order to claim the moral high ground, Christians have to lie to themselves. But this very refusal of Christians to admit that Christianity has been a source of evil is, itself, a serious moral failure of Christianity.
Christianity claims the moral high ground it its rhetoric. It has long since abandoned the moral high ground in its practices
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 14 by Phat, posted 12-19-2011 4:07 AM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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frako
Member (Idle past 327 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: 09-04-2010
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Message 24 of 318 (644591)
12-19-2011 11:56 AM
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Reply to: Message 16 by Chuck77
12-19-2011 7:13 AM
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Re: Nobody does Genocide better Christianity
Can you summarize your argument in a paragraph or two for all the people who don't feel like reading a frikkin book on a debate forum? There is not a chance in hell he was not a christian,he could have been pretending to be a christian so the believers will do what god thinks is right, but my money would be on the he is a christian pile. And most deffinitivly not on the atheist pile. So you can move the number of people who died because of hittler, to the deaths caused by religion pile. Edited by frako, : No reason given.
Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 16 by Chuck77, posted 12-19-2011 7:13 AM | | Chuck77 has not replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.7
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Message 25 of 318 (644594)
12-19-2011 12:12 PM
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To make a fair comparison across history, we need to adjust for relative population size and weaponry. I'll leave others to do the sums......
Life, don't talk to me about life.
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 26 by frako, posted 12-19-2011 12:16 PM | | Tangle has not replied |
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frako
Member (Idle past 327 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: 09-04-2010
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Message 26 of 318 (644596)
12-19-2011 12:16 PM
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Reply to: Message 25 by Tangle
12-19-2011 12:12 PM
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Um backinhistory when gods/devils where responcible for making people sick can we count the people who died to the religion pile or do we let it slide.
Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 25 by Tangle, posted 12-19-2011 12:12 PM | | Tangle has not replied |
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Taz
Member (Idle past 3312 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: 07-18-2006
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Message 27 of 318 (644614)
12-19-2011 2:46 PM
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What is a true christian?
To phat and chuck, is GWB a true christian? What about Newt Gingrich? I'm just trying to figure out what you guys would define as a true christian. And please don't give me a BS answer that looks like it was randomly generated by one of those jargon generators. I want head on specific answer, not one of those jargons written by buzsaw.
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 28 by Chuck77, posted 12-19-2011 7:44 PM | | Taz has replied | | | Message 36 by Phat, posted 12-20-2011 2:25 AM | | Taz has not replied |
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Chuck77
Inactive Member
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Message 28 of 318 (644656)
12-19-2011 7:44 PM
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Reply to: Message 27 by Taz
12-19-2011 2:46 PM
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Re: What is a true christian?
A follower/Disciple of Jesus.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 27 by Taz, posted 12-19-2011 2:46 PM | | Taz has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 30 by Dirk, posted 12-19-2011 9:40 PM | | Chuck77 has not replied | | | Message 35 by Taz, posted 12-20-2011 1:14 AM | | Chuck77 has not replied |
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purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3478 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: 04-25-2004
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Re: I have some data from the Bible to put on the table
You don't have any data from the Bible. The Bible passages you refer to are stories. (Just because some believe they are history, doesn't make it so.) I thought you were talking about real deaths. Not deaths in stories. Do we then count all the deaths that are written of in secular stories? I think a few planets have been destroyed in the Star Trek series. I remember some planet wide destruction in Babylon 5. Our planet has supposedly been flooded several times wiping out all life.
Deaths caused by the Religious 1562-1598 — French Wars of Religion — France — 4 million 1095-1291 — Crusades to the Holy Land — Middle East, Spain, Africa — 1.5 million (This does include all sides of the conflict) 1184-c. 1860 — Various Christian Inquisitions — Europe — 17,500 184-205 — Yellow Scarves Rebellion (Taoists) — China — 7 million 1300s-1521 — Human Sacrifices (Aztecs) — Mexico — 1 million 1855-1877 — Panthay Rebellion (Muslims) — China — 12 million 1971 — Bangladesh Atrocities (Islamists) — East Pakistan — 3 million September 11, 2007 — Terrorist attacks (Muslim Jihadists) — USA — 5,000 Deaths caused by the Non-Religious 1932-1933 — Holodomor (communist atheists) — Ukraine — 10 million 1941-1945 — Nazi Genocides (statist atheists) — Germany — 11 million 1959-1962 — Great Leap Forward famine (communist atheists) — China — 43 million 1975-1979 — Khmer Rouge Repression (communist atheists) — Cambodia — 3 million
Christianity and Religion Have Caused More Deaths Than Anything Else in History I don't know if these numbers are right or not and I don't plan on checking, but I think there's record of enough deaths in reality without going to stories.
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 31 by Dirk, posted 12-19-2011 9:44 PM | | purpledawn has seen this message but not replied | | | Message 32 by Butterflytyrant, posted 12-19-2011 11:37 PM | | purpledawn has replied | | | Message 33 by anglagard, posted 12-19-2011 11:47 PM | | purpledawn has seen this message but not replied | | | Message 37 by PaulK, posted 12-20-2011 2:37 AM | | purpledawn has seen this message but not replied | | | Message 40 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-20-2011 4:55 AM | | purpledawn has replied |
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Dirk
Member (Idle past 4045 days) Posts: 84 Joined: 08-20-2010
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Message 30 of 318 (644663)
12-19-2011 9:40 PM
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Reply to: Message 28 by Chuck77
12-19-2011 7:44 PM
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Re: What is a true christian?
A follower/Disciple of Jesus.
And what if this "follower of Jesus" genuinely believes, based on his interpretation of the bible/teachings of Jesus, that killing people is a requirement for "followers of Jesus" and that anyone who does not do it is not a "true follower"?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 28 by Chuck77, posted 12-19-2011 7:44 PM | | Chuck77 has not replied |
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