Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 60 (9209 total)
1 online now:
Newest Member: Skylink
Post Volume: Total: 919,452 Year: 6,709/9,624 Month: 49/238 Week: 49/22 Day: 4/12 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Where Did The (Great Flood) Water Come From And Where Did It Go?
Portillo
Member (Idle past 4413 days)
Posts: 258
Joined: 11-14-2010


Message 91 of 432 (643724)
12-11-2011 12:23 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Trixie
11-29-2011 5:09 AM


There is 330,000,000 cubic miles of liquid water on the planet, which is most of what you see from outer space. Might as well call it planet water. Todays oceans are enormously deep. There is one basin in the Pacific that is 36,000 feet deep. Thats 6 miles down. If all the ice on earth melted, the oceans would rise 300 feet and all coastal cities in the world would vanish.
Where did all the water come from that caused the Noachian flood on planet mars?

And the conspiracy was strong, for the people increased continually - 2 Samuel 15:12

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Trixie, posted 11-29-2011 5:09 AM Trixie has not replied

  
Chuck77
Inactive Member


Message 92 of 432 (643732)
12-11-2011 4:26 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by Trixie
12-04-2011 6:38 AM


Trixie writes:
Finally something to work with!
To examine your suggestions, we need to determine what evidence there is and what evidence we would expect for each one.
Hi Trixie. Sorry it took so long. Well, I havn't come up with answers to all of that yet. It gets complicated with CPT and all that will just bog down the thread.
My position is that the water was already here plus the rain that fell. Where it went could still be here. I'll try to post a better answer soon.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by Trixie, posted 12-04-2011 6:38 AM Trixie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by Trixie, posted 12-11-2011 2:07 PM Chuck77 has not replied

  
Chuck77
Inactive Member


Message 93 of 432 (643734)
12-11-2011 4:41 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by Rahvin
12-05-2011 8:08 PM


Rahvin writes:
{Devil's Advocate}
If you we're a full blown creationist this is what you would argue? That God added water supernaturally somehow? There is no other way? What about Rain, oceans, etc etc?
In order to posit geological events as the cause of the flooding, you would require rapid geological movement via an unknown mechanism to raise the sea floor (and thus sea level) to cause the flood, and then more rapid geological movement after the flood to lower sea level and allow the water to recede, all without rendering the Earth uninhabitable or boiling away the flood waters.
Ok I see. Well, I can't argue with that because I believe God did cause the "fountains of the deep" to open up, which could have been housing waters. So that can be considered SN and the water that God added could have been by rain. Not poof.
This level of geological motion would be greater than the sum total of all geological activity involved in the breakup of Pangaea into the modern continents combined, focused into less time than the flood waters covered the Earth, twice.
Couldn't the flood have caused pangaea?
and then removed it after the flood was complete.
I can't buy that. I can buy the water being added by heavy rain but not removing it by poofing it gone. The water stayed here somehow, it's somewhere IMO.
Since parsimony also suggests ex nihilo water creation via an agent already known within the context of the narrative to create things like water ex nihilo, I think catastrophic geology is by far the less likely of the two hypotheses.
Well, it' works but still doesn't say how the water got here. When you say "God added water" how do you posit He did it? I'm not sure how to know how the rain fell. If it can rain "cats and dogs" X 1,000,000 could it work?
Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.
Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.
Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Rahvin, posted 12-05-2011 8:08 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
Trixie
Member (Idle past 3958 days)
Posts: 1011
From: Edinburgh
Joined: 01-03-2004


Message 94 of 432 (643768)
12-11-2011 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by Chuck77
12-11-2011 4:26 AM


Question : where did the water come from?
Answer : My position is that the water was already here plus the rain that fell.
But where is here? It can't be in the oceans or the earth would have been flooded prior to the flood! 40 days of rain isn't going to flood the planet on it's own.
Question : where did the water go?
Answer : Where it went could still be here.
If it was still "here" we'd still be floating, yet the biblical account tells us that the flood receded rather rapidly. How could it do that if the water remained "here". It has to have moved somewhere else.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Chuck77, posted 12-11-2011 4:26 AM Chuck77 has not replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 280 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


(1)
Message 95 of 432 (645029)
12-22-2011 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Trixie
12-07-2011 5:45 AM


Re: Miles of rock
Hi Trixie,
Trixie writes:
How can the water be the bottom layer of a water-plant-sediment sandwich? Surely sediment is sediment because it sediments out of water and falls to the bottom.
Water can be buried very easily. I have buried much in my lifetime on construction projects.
But I am not talking about sediment layers that is laid down over a long period of time. I am talking about a time in the past when the Earth was bombarded by asteroids and comets.
The life forms that produced the oil that is in the Earth had to be covered before they decomposed. That leads me to believe that it did not take long to cover the plants and animals that produced the trillions of barrels of oil in the ground. The more decomposition occurred the more life forms that would have been required to poduce the oil available.
It takes 196,000 pounds of buried plant material to produce 1 gallon of gasoline. There are 42 gallons of gasoline per barrel of oil. As of 2000 we had used over a trillion barrels of oil. There is estimated to be over 6 trillion barrels of oil still in the Earth.
7 trillion barrels of oil = 1.372e+18 tons of plant material required. This does not include any material for natural gas or coal. I don't know but I think we are talking about a lot of plant and life material to produce our oil must less our natural gas and coal.
How did all that material get covered? Remember it had to be covered before it decomposed.
Trixie writes:
Yes, there will be some water left, but not alot.
There will be just as much as the sediment can absorb.
But if you dig a 40' wide hole 10' deep and it fills with water you can then take dirt and a buldozer and cover the hole and some of the water will escape but if you know how to fill the hole with the water trapped you can cover about 75% of the water. I seen guys do that by not knowing how to properly build a roadbed that had been mucked out.
Small asteroids hitting the Earth could cover lots of water and bury it in the Earth as well as the water migrating to a lower place.
Now if you don't believe the Earth was formed by accretion you will disagree that the water could be covered and exist in the Earth.
Trixie writes:
I'm not sure if you're suggesting that the size of the earth grew because of constant sedimentation or because of asteroid impacts.
If the Earth was not formed by accreation, how was it formed?
Trixie writes:
If you're suggesting that the size increased because of continual sedimentation, you're forgetting that the sediment had to come from another part of the earth, so nothing is being added it's just being rearranged.
If all layers are caused by sedimentation what formed the original Earth the size it is?
If that happened, how did the oil get so deep in the Earth?
How did the water that is deep in the Earth get there with and under the oil?
Trixie writes:
How much pressure are you going to need to displace enough water to flood the entire surface of the earth? What fills the void left by the water exiting the the "chamber" it was in?
When an oil well is drilled the oil is under great pressure as well as the water that is there. X amount of oil or water will flow out of the well without being replaced by anything due to the amount of pressure that is exerted upon the liquid. When the pressure equalizes the flow will stop. At that time pressure has to be pumped into the well to cause the flow to resume.
If there was enough water under enough pressure to flood the land mass at the time of the flood there would be no problem. At the present there is 7 to 10 times the amount of water in the Earth as there is in our oceans.
If all that water that is under pressure was released into the oceans how much would they rise?
It is really foolish to say there is not enough water to cover the Earth with water. The water is there it would be a matter of getting it out, and to the surface.
But the amount of water required would be determined by the elevation of the land mass at the time of the flood.
It is a fact that there is contintental crust in the middle of the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans as well as a lot of the other bodies of water. How did contintental crust get there? The only way that is possible is that it was dry land at one time.
In Genesis 1:1 when the Heavens and the Earth was created there was no seas. There was only a river that forked into 4 rivers that went out to water the land.
Trixie writes:
So far all you've committed to is a minimum of 1 inch for the land elevation which takes no account of a hill for the ark to come to rest on.
The reason I can commit to a minimum of 1" is because there had to be dry land. Now how much higher the elevation would be is unknown. As for as a hill being there it is not required to satisfy the text, as the text refers to a region not a specific elevation.
Trixie writes:
You need to work out how much water needs to be in your "chambers" to flood the entire earth in your model, then see if it's feasible to have "chambers" containing that amount, then a mechanism to get it out and added to the existing volume of water a the time of the flood.
There is 7 to 10 times the amount of water in the Earth as there is in the oceans. That is enough water to cover Mt Everest without any problem.
All that water that is in the Earth under the oceans is under very high pressure. If you drill a hole into a pocket of water under the ocean it will flow out until the pressure equalizes. Since you only need a small portion of the water to flood the Earth that should be no problem. There is a hole in the ocean that you could drop Mt Everst in and it would be covered by over a mile of water. Since we would only need enough to cover it with a maximum of 36' of water to satisfy the text. One ocean full should be enough leaving 6 to 9 ocean fulls still in the Earth.
Water is there under intense pressure.
If released from the fountains of the deep the water would fill the oceans due to the pressure that would be exerted on the water in the Earth.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Trixie, posted 12-07-2011 5:45 AM Trixie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by Trixie, posted 12-22-2011 5:05 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 280 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


(1)
Message 96 of 432 (645034)
12-22-2011 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by edge
12-07-2011 8:15 AM


Re: Water
Hi edge,
edge writes:
Have you actually studied the geologic record? Or do you just believe what professional creationist websites tell you?
I have done a lot of studying.
I never consult creationist websites. Most of them are clueless.
edge writes:
And yet that is common in the YEC community.
I am not YEC.
I am older universe than you are.
edge writes:
I always prefer to see the evidence. Creationists don't really have any.
I have asked for a lot of evidence here and have been given very little by the other group.
In fact there is enough water in the Earth to fill our oceans 7 to 10 times according to which scientist you agree with.
How did that water get there?
Was Earth formed by accretion?
How much pressure is the water in the Earth under the oceans under?
If I understand correctly some of those wells have in excess of 10,000 psi. That is a lot of pressure.
If the fountains of the deep opened up that pressure would force a lot of that water into our oceans?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by edge, posted 12-07-2011 8:15 AM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by edge, posted 12-23-2011 12:05 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 280 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


(1)
Message 97 of 432 (645040)
12-22-2011 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by Coragyps
12-07-2011 9:08 AM


Re: Miles of rock
Hi Coragyps,
Coragyps writes:
No "pressure below it" is involved, unless it's a water drive.
When the pressure equalizes do they use an injection method to get more oil out of the ground?
And if the oil was another 27,000 feet deep what would be the result?
Would the pressure be greater due to the heat that would exist at that depth?
Well head pressure in the Gulf is in excess of 10,000 psi. That is what caused the oil to pour out in the Gulf with the BP oil spill.
By the way the Yates oil field in Texas had wells as shallow as 20'.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Coragyps, posted 12-07-2011 9:08 AM Coragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by Theodoric, posted 12-22-2011 5:00 PM ICANT has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9489
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 6.2


Message 98 of 432 (645047)
12-22-2011 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by ICANT
12-22-2011 3:27 PM


Re: Miles of rock
By the way the Yates oil field in Texas had wells as shallow as 20'.
Oh please provide your source for this.
ABE
quote:
n October 1928 oil migrating from poorly cased deep wells was discovered seeping under the banks of the Pecos River and floating on the surface. Thousands of barrels of crude were recovered daily by skimming the river and by drilling 20-foot to 400-foot wells.
TSHA | Yates Oilfield
Not really the same thing is it?
Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by ICANT, posted 12-22-2011 3:27 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by edge, posted 12-23-2011 11:31 AM Theodoric has replied
 Message 104 by ICANT, posted 12-23-2011 4:24 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Trixie
Member (Idle past 3958 days)
Posts: 1011
From: Edinburgh
Joined: 01-03-2004


Message 99 of 432 (645048)
12-22-2011 5:05 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by ICANT
12-22-2011 1:59 PM


Re: Miles of rock
ICANT writes:
It is really foolish to say there is not enough water to cover the Earth with water. The water is there it would be a matter of getting it out, and to the surface.
Now this is where you really need to provide evidence. Exactly where is this water? How was it found? Is it a single large body of water? Is it multiple smaller bodies of water? Is it actually in the form of liquid water? Is it in the form of tiny amounts in rock pores or in hydrates? Is it available to exit where it is as a fountain?
ICANT writes:
Water can be buried very easily. I have buried much in my lifetime on construction projects.
Maybe, but filling in a hole with water in it is different from the behaviour of solids in a large body of water. For a start solids tend to sink, displacing the water so I don't think your comparison is valid. You still have to account for where the water went after the flood. If it came out of the fountains of the deep under great pressure, how is it going to get back into them in the short time span available? How is it going to get back into them at all, given the pressure that will be required? Have you ever tried to put oil back into an oilfield?
ICANT writes:
Now if you don't believe the Earth was formed by accretion you will disagree that the water could be covered and exist in the Earth.
That's a false dichotomy. The formation of the planet as a whole has no bearing on the statement I made which attempted to get some clarification. You said
ICANT writes:
I read of many times that Earth has been impacted by large asteroids that sent material into the air and even into the stratosphere. This material would have fallen back to Earth thus covering the plants and animals where it fell. Some of these impacts killed almost all life forms on Earth. Some darkened the sun for years according to what has been put forward.
That is the reason I said that any water that was on Earth when it was created would be in the same area of the oil.
In other words in my mind the Earth was a lot smaller at one time that it is now. Plants and animals grew as swarms on the ground and in the water and especially the swampy areas. Then material was added that covered those life forms. Then plants and animals grew as swarms and more material was added until we have what we have today.
Referring to that I said
I'm not sure if you're suggesting that the size of the earth grew because of constant sedimentation or because of asteroid impacts.
Nothing in what you wrote had anything to do with accretion forming the planet. We're way beyond that - in the scenario you described you were talking about how plants may have been covered and you stated the earth was alot smaller. So I'll ask you again. Are you saying the earth grew due to asteroid impacts or due to plant material being deposited or a bit of both?
ICANT writes:
In Genesis 1:1 when the Heavens and the Earth was created there was no seas. There was only a river that forked into 4 rivers that went out to water the land.
You didn't just say that What happened to your unshakable belief that all the seas were gathered into one place??? There is a very basic inconsistency in your arguments. You can't argue for all the seas being gathered into one place then say there were no seas!
ICANT writes:
The reason I can commit to a minimum of 1" is because there had to be dry land. Now how much higher the elevation would be is unknown. As for as a hill being there it is not required to satisfy the text, as the text refers to a region not a specific elevation.
So the text doesn't require any hills, you say. I suggest you read the text a bit more closely.
19And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
20Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered. Genesis 7:19,20, KJV
And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.
5And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month: in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, were the tops of the mountains seen.Genesis 8: 4,5, KJV
Note the words I've put in bold. There is an absolute requirement for land elevation. If your model only works with no land elevations, I suggest you change your model rather than making claims about the text which can only be described as wrong, unless of course you're going to argue that the definitions of hill and mountain were different when the story was written down.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by ICANT, posted 12-22-2011 1:59 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by ICANT, posted 12-23-2011 4:17 PM Trixie has replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1959 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


(1)
Message 100 of 432 (645117)
12-23-2011 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 98 by Theodoric
12-22-2011 5:00 PM


Re: Miles of rock
Not really the same thing is it?
Not exactly, but it is very possible. In the Los Angeles basin there used to be natural oil seeps at the surface. The point is that oil will migrate until it stops, and that could be at the surface.
As oil production has gone on, we have ended up drilling deeper and deeper.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by Theodoric, posted 12-22-2011 5:00 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by Theodoric, posted 12-23-2011 2:07 PM edge has replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1959 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


(1)
Message 101 of 432 (645120)
12-23-2011 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by ICANT
12-22-2011 2:58 PM


Re: Water
I have done a lot of studying.
Apparently, your studies should continue.
I never consult creationist websites. Most of them are clueless.
I am glad. Now, I suggest a college level class or two if you really want to know. This medium is not really conducive to detailed learning. I can see that you have fragments of information, but no framework to fit them into.
I am not YEC.
Again, I am happy for you.
quote:
I am older universe than you are.
I'm not sure how that is possible. Perhaps you mean you are just 'older'?
In fact there is enough water in the Earth to fill our oceans 7 to 10 times according to which scientist you agree with.
Yes, but it is not in an accesible form.
How did that water get there?
Probably by accretion. That really doesn't bother me since it is not free water.
Was Earth formed by accretion?
Probably, but that is not my field.
How much pressure is the water in the Earth under the oceans under?
Most of the free water is under hydrostatic load. Virtually all of the bound water is lithostatic since it is in the mantle.
If I understand correctly some of those wells have in excess of 10,000 psi. That is a lot of pressure.
Not really. That maximum pressure on a liquid would be lithostatic which calculates according to the formula here:
http://www.usouthal.edu/...ison/GY403/LithoStressProbKey.pdf
As you can see, the pressure at 5km burial is about 1.5kb. Since a bar is about 15psi, you are already at about 22,000psi.
Hydrostatic load would be a minimum pressure for liquid at depth. For a depth of 16,400' (5km) that would be about 0.5kb or about 7500psi.
Realistically, the pressure on a liquid must be somewhere in between, unless it is artificiall overpressured. Your wellhead pressure 0f 10,000psi is not all that huge in geologic terms, and in a subsiding basin, where sediments are being compacted by the sedimentary load, this is not outlandish nor unexpected. Neither would they exist all over the world.
If the fountains of the deep opened up that pressure would force a lot of that water into our oceans?
No. There is no such thing as 'fountains of the deep' in the sense you use it. First, there is little if any free water in the mantle. Second, it is not connected by a plumbing system to get it to the 'fountains'. Third, there is no mechanism for it to go back into the mantle. In fact, I'm guessing that such a process as this, if there were one, might freeze plate tectonics.
I am sorry, but your scenario is fantastic and scarcely imaginable only in fevered YEC dreams.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by ICANT, posted 12-22-2011 2:58 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by ICANT, posted 12-23-2011 5:54 PM edge has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9489
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 6.2


Message 102 of 432 (645130)
12-23-2011 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by edge
12-23-2011 11:31 AM


Re: Miles of rock
In the Los Angeles basin there used to be natural oil seeps at the surface.
But there were not any of these in the oilfield ICANT is discussing. Your comment has nothing to do with the issue being discussed.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by edge, posted 12-23-2011 11:31 AM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by edge, posted 12-23-2011 5:31 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 280 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 103 of 432 (645138)
12-23-2011 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by Trixie
12-22-2011 5:05 PM


Re: Miles of rock
Hi Trixie,
Trixie writes:
Now this is where you really need to provide evidence. Exactly where is this water? How was it found? Is it a single large body of water? Is it multiple smaller bodies of water? Is it actually in the form of liquid water? Is it in the form of tiny amounts in rock pores or in hydrates? Is it available to exit where it is as a fountain?
First thing is nobody can go down into the lithosphere and check out what is in and under the crust of the Earth at the bottom of the oceans.
Secondly there is very little concern for what exists there except oil and gas.
But to answer your questions the water is liquid in the lithosphere as it is on the continents and as you go deeper the water would become steam as it is heated by the core. If you go deeper the water would become superheated steam which would produce tremendous upward pressure due to the extreme heat. This comes from being a steam engineer. Then if I understand what scientist think happens is that below the superheated steam the water would become crystals of some sort.
Point of information. Superheated steam can reach 815C.
Now the only way to find out if there is water is in the lithosphere is to drill a hole in it and see if there is water there. But there is very little information on that subject as all people want to talk about is the gas and oil.
But I did find a engineer (Luis Rivas, completion engineer, deepwater exploration and production for Chevron North America) that deals with exactly what we are talking about and he talks about the acquifer that is there as well as the water being under the oil in wells and creating problems for his well drilling. You can find Here what Luis said.
Trixie writes:
Maybe, but filling in a hole with water in it is different from the behaviour of solids in a large body of water. For a start solids tend to sink, displacing the water so I don't think your comparison is valid.
If you take a 16 ounce glass and put 4 ounces of water in it and then begin to add sand to the glass until the water runs out of the glass or you have a layer of dry sand on top you will find depending on how dry the sand was an inch of dry sand at the top of the glass. You can get the water out of the sand by exposing it to the sun and the water will evaporate or you can put the sand under enough pressure and you can retreive a lot of the water.
So explain to me how the water could not be in the Earth if the Earth was half the size it is now at one time in the past as presented by scientist. Then bombarded by asteroids adding solid material and comets adding water.
Trixie writes:
If it came out of the fountains of the deep under great pressure, how is it going to get back into them in the short time span available?
I don't remember mentioning the water getting back into the fountains of the deep. It would have to go somewhere.
First I got to get the water in the acquifers under the oceans to be available to the fountains of the deep. Which I have presented the mechanism to accomplish that job.
Now since There is enough water in the mantle to fill the oceans 7 to 10 times it had to get there somehow. Since water gets into the mantle by subduction all that would be required is a couple of plates diving under other plates on the other side of the Earth from where my land mass was and the water entering the mantle, could have been sufficient to remove the flood waters. Then again some of it could have frozen at the poles.
Trixie writes:
ICANT writes:
I read of many times that Earth has been impacted by large asteroids that sent material into the air and even into the stratosphere. This material would have fallen back to Earth thus covering the plants and animals where it fell. Some of these impacts killed almost all life forms on Earth. Some darkened the sun for years according to what has been put forward.
That is the reason I said that any water that was on Earth when it was created would be in the same area of the oil.
In other words in my mind the Earth was a lot smaller at one time that it is now. Plants and animals grew as swarms on the ground and in the water and especially the swampy areas. Then material was added that covered those life forms. Then plants and animals grew as swarms and more material was added until we have what we have today.
Referring to that I said
I'm not sure if you're suggesting that the size of the earth grew because of constant sedimentation or because of asteroid impacts.
Nothing in what you wrote had anything to do with accretion forming the planet. We're way beyond that - in the scenario you described you were talking about how plants may have been covered and you stated the earth was alot smaller. So I'll ask you again. Are you saying the earth grew due to asteroid impacts or due to plant material being deposited or a bit of both?
And you don't think those large asteroids added any mass to the Earth.
I mentioned the large asteroids because they are well known but there was a bombardment of smaller asteroids and comets for a very long time adding to the mass of the Earth according to the theory of accretion.
But if you are still confused:
The Earth was smaller at one time than it is now.
Material was added including water to the mass that was there.
There was massive amounts of life forms required to exist to be covered in these bombarments in order for the material to exist that we get our oil, gas and coal from.
Now if you got a mechanism to get the 1.372e+18 tons of material required to produce the oil in the ground along with the water that is there with it and in the acquifiers please present it.
Remember this amount of material only covers the gasoline. It excludes natural gas, other oil products and coal.
Trixie writes:
ICANT writes:
In Genesis 1:1 when the Heavens and the Earth was created there was no seas. There was only a river that forked into 4 rivers that went out to water the land.
You didn't just say that What happened to your unshakable belief that all the seas were gathered into one place???
Yes I did say that, because it is what the Bible text says.
My faith is not shaken.
In Genesis 1:2 all land mass was covered with water.
In Genesis 1:9 dry land appeared when the water was gathered into one place. This was accomplished probably by an uplifting of the land mass. If God took Moses back in time an allowed him to observe what happened Moses would not have realized the land lifted but that the water moved to one place as that is what he would have seen.
In Genesis 1:1 the heavens and the Earth was created in the beginning and they were perfect.
At that time according to the history of the light period the heavens and trhe Earth was created there was 1 river that came out of the ground and divided into 4 rivers and watered the garden. Genesis 2:10
I have covered this is a past thread, so I will only mention it here and not leave the topic too far.
Trixie writes:
Nothing in what you wrote had anything to do with accretion forming the planet. We're way beyond that - in the scenario you described you were talking about how plants may have been covered and you stated the earth was alot smaller. So I'll ask you again. Are you saying the earth grew due to asteroid impacts or due to plant material being deposited or a bit of both?
The plant and animal material would not have added much volume to the Earth. Water and the materials the Earth is made of would have added the mass. As that mass increased the plant and animal materials would have decreased as it was compacted to the point it became gas and oil.
How did that material get there if not the way I describe it?
If the Earth was fully formed before any plant and animal life existed how would you get the volume of material to the depth in the Earth it is in, considering the pressure the oil is under?
How would you get the water that is with the oil and in the acquifer under miles of Earth material under the pressure it is under at that depth?
Give me a logical way for the materials and water to get there.
Trixie writes:
Note the words I've put in bold. There is an absolute requirement for land elevation. If your model only works with no land elevations, I suggest you change your model rather than making claims about the text which can only be described as wrong, unless of course you're going to argue that the definitions of hill and mountain were different when the story was written down.
There would have to be elevation to have ההרים which is translated hills.
The text does not say how high those hills were. But you say they were mountains. Well actually that was added by the translators as they translated ההרים as mountains as well as hills.
But since the land mass had not been divided at the time of the flood from what it was in Genesis 1:10 how high could those hills be?
That is the reason I said I would need more information such as the elevation of the land to know how much water was needed to cover the Earth at the time of the flood.
I could make an assumption and I would probably have a 99.9999999999infinity% chance to be wrong.
Due to the fact I would be wrong I won't make an assumption.
If I did not make my position clear ask for what you need.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Trixie, posted 12-22-2011 5:05 PM Trixie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by Trixie, posted 12-23-2011 7:02 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 280 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 104 of 432 (645139)
12-23-2011 4:24 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by Theodoric
12-22-2011 5:00 PM


Re: Miles of rock
Hi Theodoric,
Theodoric writes:
Not really the same thing is it?
A seep is a seep regardless of the cause.
A 20' well that produces oil is a 20' well regardless of the way the oil got there to be pumped out.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by Theodoric, posted 12-22-2011 5:00 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1959 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 105 of 432 (645142)
12-23-2011 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by Theodoric
12-23-2011 2:07 PM


Re: Miles of rock
But there were not any of these in the oilfield ICANT is discussing. Your comment has nothing to do with the issue being discussed.
The point is that IC could have chosen a better example. As it is, he is only heaping ignorance on misinformation and we see another example in the most recent post. Now we have water crystals in the core of the earth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Theodoric, posted 12-23-2011 2:07 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by ICANT, posted 12-23-2011 6:01 PM edge has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024