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Member (Idle past 4450 days) Posts: 415 From: Australia Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Moral high ground | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
hooah212002 Member (Idle past 829 days) Posts: 3193 Joined:
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If it weren't for the liberal relgionists, we as a society would have no problem relegating the silly beliefs of christianity/islam/judaism etc. the way of astrology. However, we do have the liberal religionists who stand in the way and say "you need to let people believe what they want" and since you lot can't unify on a reasonable, rational belief set, the rest of us are left having to deal with the extremists because it is still a faux-pa to mock the belief that we need a magic jewish zombie to forgive us for some rib-woman eating a fruit. If we were left with nothing but the extremists or literalists, it would be that much easier for the whole of society to realize how much better of we are without fairy tales and we could eradicate them from every day public discourse.
So how, again, are you shielding anyone against extremism?? Mythology is what we call someone else’s religion. Joseph Campbell
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Utter bullshit.
We too have to deal with the extremists. No one has said it is still a faux-pa to mock the belief that we need a magic jewish zombie to forgive us for some rib-woman eating a fruit. No liberal I know of has ever said that "you need to let people believe what they want", it is the US Constitution that says that. Consider telling the truth and stop misrepresenting reality.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Rahvin Member Posts: 4045 Joined: Member Rating: 7.6
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Yes Liberal Christians do try to shield folk like you. We pray for your soul too. Yes we are a shield against extremism. I'm not necessarily saying that I agree with Hooah in his analysis of liberal Christians. I haven't thought much on the topic, so I don;t know what position to take. I will say, however, that "praying" is a fancy word for "doing nothing useful whatsoever." "Praying" for reduced extremism does effectively nothing to curb it. A real "shield against extremism" would require actively reaching out to extremists and attempting to convince them of the error of their ways. I suppose the "liberal Christian" version of that would be actively attempting to gain converts from the more extreme denominations. Not just looking at a story about a bombed abortion facility and thinking "oh, that's sad, they shouldn't do that," and then praying for the victims and for reduced violence, but actively seeking out the anti-abortion protesters and reminding them of the "love your enemy" bits of the Bible to discourage the less rational from taking matters beyond protest. I don't see a lot of that. I see a lot of apathy. That said, I see a lot of apathy from the vast majority of people, inclusive of those who agree that extremism is very bad and needs to be stopped, across all belief systems. Actual active attempts to curb extremism are rare. I don't know that "liberal Christians" are sufficiently different from everyone else to be singled out by that sort of criticism.The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it. - Francis Bacon "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers
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hooah212002 Member (Idle past 829 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: |
"I'm right, you're wrong" is such a great argument, jar.
No one has said it is still a faux-pa to mock the belief that we need a magic jewish zombie to forgive us for some rib-woman eating a fruit. Then why is atheist still such a dirty word? So dirty a word is it, that a large portion of the skeptic community is actively distancing themselves and going to great lengths to make sure it is known that skepticism does not equate atheism. Why are people such as Dawkins and Harris seeking new terms for atheists (brights, they are calling it now). If you are now claiming that it is now acceptable to, in every day discourse, laugh and chide with relative strangers about religion the same as we do astrology or bigfoot, you live in a different world than I do.
No liberal I know of has ever said that "you need to let people believe what they want", it is the US Constitution that says that. Golly jee, jar. You mean we have a constitution that guarantees freedom of religion? Wow, I had no idea I was talking about legal issues. Thank you for correcting me. I had no idea that social norms were included in the same document, either.
Consider telling the truth and stop misrepresenting reality. Painful truth is not a lie, jar. You are just another example of a liberal christian doing all he/she can to make silly irrational beliefs acceptable. I'm sorry that you think praying is helpful.Mythology is what we call someone else’s religion. Joseph Campbell
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
It really doesn't much matter what you see.
And I did not say "pray for reduced extremism", I said pray for YOU. I think you will admit that I and several others do speak out against extremism. Apathy is certainly an issue, as it has always been. But Liberal Christianity is not the problem.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
hooah212002 writes: If it weren't for the liberal relgionists, we as a society would have no problem relegating the silly beliefs of christianity/islam/judaism etc. the way of astrology. However, we do have the liberal religionists who stand in the way and say "you need to let people believe what they want" and since you lot can't unify on a reasonable, rational belief set, the rest of us are left having to deal with the extremists because it is still a faux-pa to mock the belief that we need a magic jewish zombie to forgive us for some rib-woman eating a fruit. If we were left with nothing but the extremists or literalists, it would be that much easier for the whole of society to realize how much better of we are without fairy tales and we could eradicate them from every day public discourse. This will all probably sound quite sanctimonious but here goes anyway. It is just a couple of thoughts that I have about your post. Personally I have never found it helpful when arguing for or against someone else's beliefs to mock either them or their beliefs. Frankly I find it difficult to understand how anyone can believe that existence and particularly human existence could have evolved from a non-intelligent first cause, but I do recognize that there are many people, much more intelligent than myself who do believe just that. Just maybe, you could recognize the fact that there are many highly intelligent people, maybe even some more intelligent than you, whose worldview is formed because they believe in the very things that you mock. My beliefs are just that. I can't prove them to be true and in fact I can't know them to be true in the way that we normally speak of knowing something. I frankly have very little doubt of the basic tenants of my faith, but it is a faith. You seem to suggest that it is important that fundamentalists be shown the error of their ways. If that is your goal then I suggest that your way of going about it is counter-productive. There are some Christian posters on this forum that cause me to cringe when I read their posts and think of them representing the beliefs that are so important to me. I don't know, but I have a hunch that there are atheists, (I assuming that is what you would call yourself), here that feel the same way about posts like this one of yours. Regardless of what you post I will continue to respect your beliefs. Maybe you might consider the same courtesy for those who don't share your beliefs.Everybody is entitled to my opinion.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I can't much help what world you live in, that is up to you.
You'll have to ask the "Brights" why they felt a need to change their name.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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hooah212002 Member (Idle past 829 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: |
This will be my last post in this vein as we are destroying htis thread with this off topic banter.
Just maybe, you could recognize the fact that there are many highly intelligent people, maybe even some more intelligent than you, whose worldview is formed because they believe in the very things that you mock. Of course I recognize that. However, just because someone smarter than me has an irrational belief set doesn't make that belief set any more valid or rational. Moreover, plenty more idiots hold the same belief that you do to justify the mockery. Thos individuals who are intelligent and are held in high regard in intellectual society compartmentalize their irrational beliefs so they don't matter much to the nature of their character in that regard.
I don't know, but I have a hunch that there are atheists, (I assuming that is what you would call yourself), here that feel the same way about posts like this one of yours. Yes, I am an atheist. I would hope, actually encourage, others to call me out if I am incorrect. I have proven in the past that i am more than willing to be corrected if I am wrong. I can take criticism (from the right individual, that is) if I say something profoundly retarded or detrimental to the freethought cause.
Regardless of what you post I will continue to respect your beliefs. Maybe you might consider the same courtesy for those who don't share your beliefs. I respect your right to have those beliefs but I absolutely do not respect the beliefs themselves. Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.Mythology is what we call someone else’s religion. Joseph Campbell
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Jon Inactive Member
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Do you ever post anything about religion that doesn't illuminate your deep hatred and total ignorance of the subject?
Edited by Jon, : No reason given.Love your enemies!
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hooah212002 Member (Idle past 829 days) Posts: 3193 Joined:
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I notice your response is sorely lacking in anything that resembles an explanation as to how I am wrong. Instead, it sounds as though you disagree because you don't like the idea of someone talking down to liberal relgionists. If you would like to actually discuss the position or issue I raised and do so with argument instead of insult, I'd be glad to oblige.
Mythology is what we call someone else’s religion. Joseph Campbell
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Chuck77 Inactive Member |
hooah writes: If you would like to actually discuss the position or issue I raised and do so with argument instead of insult, I'd be glad to oblige. Hahahahahahahahaha...you should still be banned. They let you back already? Shame, but thanks for the laugh! Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9512 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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GDR writes: Regardless of what you post I will continue to respect your beliefs. Maybe you might consider the same courtesy for those who don't share your beliefs. Sadly, I don't think that's actually possible. It's a less extreme form of the Christian homophobe's 'love the sinner but hate the sin.' It's nonsense - beliefs maketh the man, people judge you on them and they can't avoid it.Life, don't talk to me about life.
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Chuck77 Inactive Member
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Rahvin writes: I will say, however, that "praying" is a fancy word for "doing nothing useful whatsoever." *Buzzer* That would be the "incorrect" buzzer. Praying is talking to God. That's what praying is. It's not rubbing a magic lantern. Sometimes we just talk to God. That's praying. Sometimes we ask God to help someone. That's praying. Sometimes we even ask God to help us. That's praying. Sometimes we just thank God for being who He is and caring for us. That's praying. There are many forms of prayer. What prayer is not is this:
"doing nothing useful whatsoever." Go ahead and start a prayer thread so you can learn what prayer is. Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given. Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.
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AdminPD Inactive Administrator |
Participants, Please get back to the topic of the thread. Remember to argue the position and not the person and avoid short posts, try to enlarge on the argument and give your opponent something to build on.
Please direct any comments concerning this Administrative msg to the General Discussion Of Moderation Procedures (aka 'The Whine List') thread. Any response in this thread will receive a 24 hour suspension. Thank youAdminPD |
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Do you ever post anything about religion that doesn't illuminate your deep hatred and total ignorance of the subject? I was wondering the same thing... Here we have two christians calmly expressing themselves to an assholish atheist who spouts nothing but vitriol. And he thinks that he has the moral high ground Who needs to count deaths!
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