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Author | Topic: Where Did The (Great Flood) Water Come From And Where Did It Go? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
JonF Member (Idle past 195 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
Yeah, he's equivocating (probably without realizing it) between water in aquifers and water bound up in hydrated rocks. He thinks of all that water down there as an artesian well waiting to be tapped.
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JonF Member (Idle past 195 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
Well no, I have proposed that the water in the mantle under 100 C is hot water. Water in the mantle between 100 C and 176.6666666666 C is steam. Water in the mantle between 176.6666666666 C and 815 C would be superheated steam. Steam rises and as it does so it will cool until it condenses into water and that water as it rises will cool. So I am not proposing that superheated steam will be released into the ocean. Ever hear of the Age of Steam? Are you aware that for a long time the entire industrialized world depended on accurate knowledge of the properties of water and steam? Apparently not. W know a lot about the properties of water and steam. You don't get to make up properties to suit you. Water under the pressures found under the crust and in the mantle is not steam. Period. Releasing that water from that pressure would flash it instantaneously into superheated steam. Period. Which superheated steam would, by conservation of mass, have to erupt at incredible supersonic velocities, probably above escape velocity, dragging all the water in the oceans and our atmosphere along with it. Sorry, kiddo, your scenario has been analyzed by those who know and found wanting. It's much like Waltie Brown's original hydropants theory. See Walter Brown's Hydroplate Model, especially under the "everyone will cook" heading. See also THe KTB Borehole and The Phase Diagram of Water
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JonF Member (Idle past 195 days) Posts: 6174 Joined:
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Try calculating the energy released by the conversion of the potential and kinetic energy from so many comets and asteroids into heat, and you'll find the water will be steam all right, and the surface of the Earth will be molten. Not that any macroscopic life will remain after the blast waves to see it.
The asteroid that wiped out (or at least severely impacted ;-) ) the dinosaurs was much too small to have the effect you are looking for.
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JonF Member (Idle past 195 days) Posts: 6174 Joined:
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Present your evidence that subduction has ever taken place. Oh there's lots of it. My favorite is seismic tomography, like CAT scans except using earthquakes as the probing waves. Here's a side view of the southwestern Pacific, with eartquakes as white dots:
(Depth Extent of the Lau Back-Arc Spreading Center and Its Relation to Subduction Processes) Here's the Aegean between Greece and Turkey:
(Motion history of tectonic plates unravelled ) Here's some images of the western US. See the San Andreas Fault and the Yellowstone hot spot?:
(Upper Mantle Heterogeneity beneath North America from Travel Time Tomography with Global and USArray Transportable Array Data
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JonF Member (Idle past 195 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
Wow. Talk about ad-hoc un-evidenced assertions, we got a live one here!
Still looking for your calculations of the energy converted to heat from those asteroid impacts, and the effect of accelerated nuclear decay on life, and how life survived those catastrophes. Ever think about how much radioactive potassium-40 you have in your body, and the effect if it's decay were accelerated enough to fit a YEC scenario?
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JonF Member (Idle past 195 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
. The windows of heaven were opened for 150 days according to the bible. That is alot of time.
A million years is a lot of time. 150 days is nothing.
If you consider the amount of heat necessary to disintegrate miles of crust into sand and the amount of heat lost when water was absorbed into the mantle, there is no need to conclude all water was vaporized.
Another un-evidenced assertion. (Oh, and meteorite impacts don't produce sand). Let's see the calculations.
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JonF Member (Idle past 195 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
Let's see your calculations.
It would also help if you could present a list of all the claims you have made or are going to make for which you have no evidence and require a miracle to produce. Just for grins I thought I'd post something from the RATE I book, by prominent creationist Dr. Russel Humphreys:
quote: Can you count the number of miracles he's assuming? It's convenient that your God is so accommodating, popping up another miracle whenever you want.
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JonF Member (Idle past 195 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
It is more than enough time to get the job done.
Another un-evidenced assertion. Let's see the numbers.
We are discussing ideas here buddy. I'm not wearing a lab coat, and I don't have labratory utensils at hand, do YOU?
Lab coats and utensils aren't necessary to do the math. List your assumptions and calculate the impact.
Saying it is an un-evidenced assertion is like saying the sky is blue. It is meaningless to the discussion at hand. Meteorite impacts don't produce sand when you don't have 5 miles of subterranean water underneath you and the size of the crust is 35 miles. Those were not the conditions in noahs day.
OK, let's see a list of the conditions that were different in Noah's day and the evidence that indicates that those conditions were different. Your un-evidenced assertions are still just that no matter what you want to claim about the sky today.
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JonF Member (Idle past 195 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
Again, that is not how it works buddy. You guys are the one who make the claim of impossibility. I show you ways that it is not impossible. I just did. It is now up to YOU to show why my scenario is impossible. You're making the positive claim of possibility, we're requesting sufficient information to evaluate that claim. The ball's in your court. Under today's conditions the scenario you propose would wipe out all macroscopic life at least twice over. List the conditions for your scenario including the evidence that those conditions were as you are assuming. You also need to address the observations we have such as the constancy of radioactive decay rates, for example The fundamental constants and their variation: observational status and theoretical motivations So far you're just making s**t up and assuming a miracle whenever your scenario has a problem. We know that's all you got, we've seen the same tired story many times before, we're just poking you for the fun of it.
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JonF Member (Idle past 195 days) Posts: 6174 Joined:
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So a picture created on a computer from seismic waves passing through the Earth which is interpeted by man is evidence. If so, why isn't evidence presented from the Bible equal evidence? A man's interpretation of the Bible is perfectly good evidence for what it's writers believed. It doesn't contain much that is useful in trying to determine the structure of the Earth or how the alleged flood happened.
So you don't mind if I don't pay much attention to what some man thinks, do you? Pay attention to whatever you want for whatever reasons make sense to you. However, if you want to discuss the alleged flood or convince someone to adopt your beliefs, you will have to accept existing observations. Those pictures are presentations of observations, and demand explanation. If you ignore them, as I expect you will, your participation in this thread is pointless.
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JonF Member (Idle past 195 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
I echo edge's call for references for your assertions about plate tectonics.
I have no problem with existing observations. You appear to have a problem with the observations I posted. What is your explanation for this data?
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JonF Member (Idle past 195 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
Isn't it required by tectonicists that the volume of crust generated at ocean ridges be equal to the volume subducted? There are 80,000 km of ridges that is supposed to be producing new crust. Yet there are only 30,500 km of trenches in existence. Adding the 9,000 km of collision zones don't help much. Oh, and you forgot to factor in the rates of motion and the raising of mountains. Probably a few other things, too.
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JonF Member (Idle past 195 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
Steam for the Fludde He thinks that the Earth's interior was cold before the fludde, and was heated by accelerated radioactive decay during and after the fludde. Never mind all the issues with accelerated radioactive decay and the evidence we have of radioactive decay rates being constant for many billions of years.
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JonF Member (Idle past 195 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
There are 80,000 km of ridges that is supposed to be producing new crust. Yet there are only 30,500 km of trenches in existence. Adding the 9,000 km of collision zones don't help much. But I find, in many places such as Subduction Zones:
quote: I'm not an expert in this field, but it seems pretty obvious than the length of convergent plate margins is more relevant than the length of trenches. I also note that the above-quoted numbers were published before your source, and yet your source didn't mention these often-referenced sources. So, based on this evidence, I'm going to conclude that your source is a crank. Unlike, of course, your refusal to address the seismic tomography evidence I posted. There's data there, no matter how it's presented, and it cries out for explanation. Edited by JonF, : tinty typo Edited by JonF, : No reason given.
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JonF Member (Idle past 195 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
There is no solid boulder around today that has been dated later than 3.9 billion years ago Nope. 4.0-4.03 billion years: Priscoan (4.004.03 Ga) orthogneisses from northwestern Canada. And, 4.28 billion years: Neodymium-142 Evidence for Hadean Mafic Crust (full text requires free registration).
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