Summations Only

You don't follow US politics, do you? This country is far from "inclusive". Every single republican candidate leading the race speaks of "bringing my christian faith to the white house" and christian this christian that. As an atheist, I don't feel inclusive. Especially when there are zero atheists in office. How many non-Jew/christian representatives are there? I can't count how many times I have read about the ACLU getting involved because of some gov't meeting that starts with a prayer to jesus, or a public school that holds christian prayers over the loud speaker at graduation or a football game. The only areas in the US that can even be remotely considered inclusive in regards to religion are the liberal of the liberal like major cities on the coast. However, as soon as you trek towards the midwest, you get christianity shoved up your ass like a hot poker. I don't mean liberal, in this case, as a title but as a description. IMO, any christian that isn't a literalist/fundamentalist/dogmatic is a liberal christian. Think: wishy-washy.As far as the rest of your post: I have no disagreements. You seem like a nice enough guy and a model for the religious to hope to be like. I just used you as an example so I apologize for indicting you as I did. However, my grudge with liberal christianity still stands as "you" guys will stand as a shield against the extremists.

If it weren't for the liberal relgionists, we as a society would have no problem relegating the silly beliefs of christianity/islam/judaism etc. the way of astrology. However, we do have the liberal religionists who stand in the way and say "you need to let people believe what they want" and since you lot can't unify on a reasonable, rational belief set, the rest of us are left having to deal with the extremists because it is still a faux-pa to mock the belief that we need a magic jewish zombie to forgive us for some rib-woman eating a fruit. If we were left with nothing but the extremists or literalists, it would be that much easier for the whole of society to realize how much better of we are without fairy tales and we could eradicate them from every day public discourse.So how, again, are you shielding anyone against extremism??

"I'm right, you're wrong" is such a great argument, jar. Then why is atheist still such a dirty word? So dirty a word is it, that a large portion of the skeptic community is actively distancing themselves and going to great lengths to make sure it is known that skepticism does not equate atheism. Why are people such as Dawkins and Harris seeking new terms for atheists (brights, they are calling it now). If you are now claiming that it is now acceptable to, in every day discourse, laugh and chide with relative strangers about religion the same as we do astrology or bigfoot, you live in a different world than I do. Golly jee, jar. You mean we have a constitution that guarantees freedom of religion? Wow, I had no idea I was talking about legal issues. Thank you for correcting me. I had no idea that social norms were included in the same document, either. Painful truth is not a lie, jar. You are just another example of a liberal christian doing all he/she can to make silly irrational beliefs acceptable. I'm sorry that you think praying is helpful.

This will be my last post in this vein as we are destroying htis thread with this off topic banter. Of course I recognize that. However, just because someone smarter than me has an irrational belief set doesn't make that belief set any more valid or rational. Moreover, plenty more idiots hold the same belief that you do to justify the mockery. Thos individuals who are intelligent and are held in high regard in intellectual society compartmentalize their irrational beliefs so they don't matter much to the nature of their character in that regard. Yes, I am an atheist. I would hope, actually encourage, others to call me out if I am incorrect. I have proven in the past that i am more than willing to be corrected if I am wrong. I can take criticism (from the right individual, that is) if I say something profoundly retarded or detrimental to the freethought cause. I respect your right to have those beliefs but I absolutely do not respect the beliefs themselves.Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.

I notice your response is sorely lacking in anything that resembles an explanation as to how I am wrong. Instead, it sounds as though you disagree because you don't like the idea of someone talking down to liberal relgionists. If you would like to actually discuss the position or issue I raised and do so with argument instead of insult, I'd be glad to oblige.

Well, their excuse is that god IS and stops us heathens from doing those things, regardless if we believe in it or not.

I suppose I worded that wrong. I should have said (instead of "stops us from doing those things") we get morals from god whether we acknowledge his existence or not, so I suppose that wording negates the free will argument.

When you have people who say "without god, there would be no morals/people would go around killing/if I didn't have jesus I would go around killing and raping", all you need to do is point out the atrocities in the name of religion and say "see, these people had jesus/god/whatever and still did bad shit" and that is enough to say that it matters not whether they believed in some god. In order for some group of people to claim the moral high ground, they have to actually be more moral as a whole than the group they claim to be more moral than. What you are saying would be like saying Jeffery Dahmer was a good guy because maybe one time he did something good.I really can see why it is hard for you guys to take off your rose coloured glasses and see your religion for what it truly is. What a life changing event it must be to admonish your fairy tale beliefs.

I don't agree with your "groups" and how you grouped them together. To be honest, I didn't read your post past group two.

A Clash of Cultures in the Holy LandThey have god on their side and they are all for equality.......

For starters, you forgot child raping priests in any of your groups so how can we adequately assess any of them?

Wow, your hypocrisy, ignorance and stupidity knows no bounds, does it? You mean like how you mentioned, just a few posts ago, how I should "still be banned"? You fucking jesus freaks are something else...{abe}
I am a moron. Sorry chuck.Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.

Yea....I addressed this in Message 100. It seemingly got bypassed. I WILL say that your "hypothetical" assertion that they didn't know is false because he told them exactly what they were doing. They all WANTED to die. The parents told their children they were going to die. Just the same as parents force them to go to church, or get baptized, or get circumsized. No one except the religious claim that children know what religion they want. As a matter of fact, many atheists now will claim that indoctrination is child abuse. A child is not "a christian child" or "a muslim child" just as they are not a "republican child" or "a democrat child". Have you never seen the documentary "Jesus Camp"????? They weren't. Again, all patently false. These people believed what Jim Jones was telling them. They wanted to die. They knew that when they followed him to Guyana.If you are going to use an example, especially if it is one of the most gruesome, don't try and downplay just to save the face of religion. Every single one of them.{abe}
I should note that I have found evidence that renders all statements I have made on this matter to be false. I should have done better research before spouting off about it. I will leave my original words here to shame me.Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.