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Author Topic:   The Annual War over Christmas -- by christians
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2402 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


(2)
Message 61 of 63 (646358)
01-04-2012 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by Buzsaw
12-23-2011 12:37 AM


ORLY
Buzsaw writes:

He became the first pontifix maximus (pope), declaring that there should be only one religion. Thus he became ruler of both the only lawful church and the state/empire.

This is very misleading, and not accurate.

1. Ponitfex Maximus (High Priest) was the title of the leader of the college of pontiffs. And they became religious advisers of the roman kings, way back in the 500s bce ( 6th century BC). By the time of Constantine the title had existed for hundreds of years. He was by no means the 1st. (Peter the apostle was the 1st Pope)
2. Constantine also “legalized” Christianity. This is far cry from declaring that it should be the only religion.

So as to keep the peace in the empire he mingled some paganism into Christianity.

The Romans had also been doing this for centuries by the time of Constantine. For example when the Romans conquered Britannia (the future UK) in the mid 1st century ce (AD), and came across the natural spring at Bath (present day Bath, Somerset, England), it was a place a reverence and religion for the native Celtic Bretons. They revered a goddess of wisdom their named Sulis. The Romans had a goddess of war wisdom named Minerva, guess what? They (Romans) built a marvelous structure and shrine at the spring and they named it Sulis Minerva, combining the two faiths and yet still recognizing the significance of the location.

To blame or credit all this on Constantine is not accurate.

I've cited this to say that the precedence was early established in the RCC to adopt some paganism into Christianity.

Also not entirely accurate. The Romans as Pagans adopted other pagan beliefs into their system (Celtic and Germanic), and later on when the Romans became Christian, and set of their own Church (the Roman Catholic Church) hundreds of years later, the people (former pagans) used days and holidays they knew already and implemented their new beliefs into them. This DOES NOT mean that the Roman Catholic Church specifically targeted pagan ideals for syncretism. It was more just an evolution of ideas and practices by the people who converted to the faith. Your misreading of history and bias against us sounds like Jack Chick. I admit my bias is Catholic, but yours is definitely anti-Catholic, and while I am here, I am going to point out the misinformation that you are trying to spread.

Hey man religious syncretism happens. Sometimes regardless if the church wants it are not, but to blame the church for actively doing it, and maintaining that some old Jewish text is against it, and therefore you are is cool (I guess), but get your historical data correct before you make points about us.

Further Example:
Dia de los Muertos, y los Inocentes, y Angelitos are holidays that were more recently pagan (Aztec) that have been adopted by the local people who converted, and have spread (Araw ng mga Patay in the Phillippines) to some places but not others. It was not an active church policy to create this celebration, but more of something that happened. You can say they shouldn’t let it happen, but to say that the RCC specifically created these combinations is silly. The Day of the Dead (Dia de los Muertos), is not big in the United States except in areas with a large Mexican population (Arizona, California, and Texas), if you were correct and the church was actively promoting aspects of paganism then Irish Catholic kids in Massachusetts would also be instructed in the Day of the Dead, and it would be another holiday here in the USA. Just as people in Honduras would celebrate St. Patrick's day with a big parade and a day of fun in the middle of Lent, but that is not the case, is it?

Edited by Artemis Entreri, : worse title


This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Buzsaw, posted 12-23-2011 12:37 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by caffeine, posted 01-05-2012 5:36 AM Artemis Entreri has responded

  
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1675
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 62 of 63 (646542)
01-05-2012 5:36 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by Artemis Entreri
01-04-2012 11:55 AM


Re: ORLY
Dia de los Muertos, y los Inocentes, y Angelitos are holidays that were more recently pagan (Aztec) that have been adopted by the local people who converted, and have spread (Araw ng mga Patay in the Phillippines) to some places but not others. It was not an active church policy to create this celebration, but more of something that happened. You can say they shouldn’t let it happen, but to say that the RCC specifically created these combinations is silly. The Day of the Dead (Dia de los Muertos), is not big in the United States except in areas with a large Mexican population (Arizona, California, and Texas), if you were correct and the church was actively promoting aspects of paganism then Irish Catholic kids in Massachusetts would also be instructed in the Day of the Dead, and it would be another holiday here in the USA. Just as people in Honduras would celebrate St. Patrick's day with a big parade and a day of fun in the middle of Lent, but that is not the case, is it?

More's the point, many of the cults, saints and celebrations in Mexican Catholicism are specifically condemned by Rome as non-Christian, but a community's folk beliefs evolve on their own, regardless of what someone in a position of authority may have to say on the matter.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Artemis Entreri, posted 01-04-2012 11:55 AM Artemis Entreri has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by Artemis Entreri, posted 01-05-2012 4:12 PM caffeine has not yet responded

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2402 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


(1)
Message 63 of 63 (646611)
01-05-2012 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by caffeine
01-05-2012 5:36 AM


Re: ORLY
exactly.

I'd rather debate with atheists who think I am silly because I have faith than with protestants who know so much stuff that isn't true.

More's the point, many of the cults, saints and celebrations in Mexican Catholicism are specifically condemned by Rome as non-Christian, but a community's folk beliefs evolve on their own, regardless of what someone in a position of authority may have to say on the matter.

I am not really aware of too many of them outside of Santa Muerte, and some of the Narco Cults, but things like Dia de los Muertos (which happens to be celebrated one day after all souls/saints day), is not something i think the Vatican would really care about.

you hit on another great point though, and that is that different communities of Catholics do different things even when Rome suggests otherwise. I think it is funny when people on the outside "assume to know" what the RCC is like, and how we all robotic-ally do what the pope says (which is completely untrue).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by caffeine, posted 01-05-2012 5:36 AM caffeine has not yet responded

  
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