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Author Topic:   Question Evolution!
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(4)
Message 23 of 235 (646808)
01-06-2012 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Anel Vadren
01-06-2012 12:57 AM


My name is Jimmy Stephens and I am very excited to be a part of Christian Ministries International's new grass roots movement, Question Evolution! It is a bold campaign seeking to rid our schools, media, and politics of evolutionist indoctrination and spread the 15 questions which evolutionists can not adequately answer. Hopefully, you too will join CMI's campaign to refute the falsehoods of evolution. Please found out more at creation.com/question-evolution and discover the promising efforts against the pseudoscience of evolution.
Also, please check out the Question Evolution! blog and keep up-to-date about the creation versus evolution debate, the Question Evolution! movement, and the lies of evolution.
I notice that about half of your "questions" are in fact blatant falsehoods disguised as questions, as though I were to ask "Why do you practice cannibalism?"
You may think that phrasing rephrasing falsehoods as questions in this way shields you from the moral obloquy of bearing false witness. It does not.
A question for you: If the best way you can think of to defend creationism is this kind of dishonest piffle, does that not suggest to you, as it suggests to me, that it is not worth defending? Without courage, without integrity, without honor, without dignity, you people are apparently obliged to stoop this sort of thing as the very best you can do. Well, if that's the best you can do, then the thing is not worth doing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Anel Vadren, posted 01-06-2012 12:57 AM Anel Vadren has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 26 of 235 (646814)
01-06-2012 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by hooah212002
01-06-2012 3:36 PM


See, the thing is: CMI knows fuck all about evolution (as evidenced by the absurdity of the "questions"). If one wishes to actually "question evolution", the best place to start is by learning what evolution actually is and what the theory behind it says.
No, that would be the best place to start if there really was something wrong with evolution. Because there isn't, grotesque and pitiful ignorance is in fact the best vantage point from which to do so.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by hooah212002, posted 01-06-2012 3:36 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(5)
Message 34 of 235 (646836)
01-06-2012 6:12 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Jon
01-06-2012 5:24 PM


Is there a way we can post questions on that site?
Fifteen Questions That Anyone Can Answer But Creationists Don't Want To
(1) Is there any scientific evidence that fish were created four days after light?
(2) Is there any scientific evidence that birds were created one day after that?
(3) Is there any scientific evidence that the first woman was created out of the rib of the first man?
(4) Is there any scientific evidence that the first man was created "from the dust of the ground".
(5) Is there any scientific evidence that snakes were once able to talk?
(6) Is there any scientific evidence that humans acquired their sense of morality by eating fruit?
(7) Is there any scientific evidence that God brought the animals before the first man to name them?
(8) Is there any scientific evidence that the sons of God descended from heaven to marry human women?
(9) Is there any scientific evidence for the city supposedly built by Cain?
(10) Is there any scientific evidence that both bronze and iron were in use after only ten generations of the human race?
(11) Is there any scientific evidence that a man named Noah built a big ship out of gopher wood?
(12) Is there any scientific evidence that all the Earth's terrestrial fauna dispersed from a single location somewhere in the mountains of Ararat?
(13) Is there any scientific evidence that Noah only took two of each kind of unclean animal on the Ark?
(14) Is there any scientific evidence that everyone in the world spoke the same language until about 2200 B.C?
(15) Is there any scientific evidence that the Book of Genesis isn't just a bunch of fairy-tales made up by people who knew jack shit?
Supplementary question: can you remind me why they call it "creation science"?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Jon, posted 01-06-2012 5:24 PM Jon has seen this message but not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 39 of 235 (646847)
01-06-2012 7:25 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by foreveryoung
01-06-2012 6:20 PM


Re: 6 answers
Evidence that evolution is just so story telling? They take pseudogenes in various animals and claim that because the mutations in these genes follow a pattern, those animals evolved from each other according to that pattern. That is the essence of just so story telling.
So it's "just so story telling" like taking footprints to be evidence of feet?
Well, if that's what you creationists mean by "just so story telling" then the answer to CMI's question is obvious: this is acceptable to scientists 'cos of being an essential and indispensable part of the scientific method, and because rejecting knowledge acquired in this way is stark raving lunacy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by foreveryoung, posted 01-06-2012 6:20 PM foreveryoung has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by foreveryoung, posted 01-07-2012 7:44 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 42 of 235 (646863)
01-06-2012 11:36 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by herebedragons
01-06-2012 10:45 PM


Oh my word.
They're not even trying to be right, are they?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by herebedragons, posted 01-06-2012 10:45 PM herebedragons has replied

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 65 of 235 (646974)
01-07-2012 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by mike the wiz
01-07-2012 7:33 AM


Re: The tentativity of science
The most I can make of your ideas is that you're trying to say: "You only believe it because all the available evidence supports it".
Well, yeah. And obviously that doesn't make evolution special in any way.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by mike the wiz, posted 01-07-2012 7:33 AM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by mike the wiz, posted 01-07-2012 4:21 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 94 of 235 (647011)
01-07-2012 6:07 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by mike the wiz
01-07-2012 4:21 PM


Re: The tentativity of science
No, that's a misunderstanding. If all of the available evidence supported evolutio, you would be making a LAW of evolution.
No, that's not the distinction between a law and a theory. A law is a theory which describes a simple regularity: "As the tension, so the extension"; "the sun rises in the East"; "F = m1m2/r2, "I'm only happy when it rai-ins" (Shirley Manson's Law).
If you had been paying attention in science class, you'd know that the distinction between law and theory can't be what you think it is, because there are theories which consist of nothing but laws, e.g. Maxwell's theory consists entirely of Maxwell's four laws.
The most I can make of your ideas is that you're trying to say: "You only believe it because all the available evidence supports it".
No, I would say of you as an evolutionist, that you have a justified true belief that evolution is true, as far as the evidence can help you on thatparticular path of knowledge/truth.
I don't see what distinction you're trying to draw between my statement and yours. Yours is longer ...
---
As to the rest of your post, if you think you can come up with evidence against evolution, start a thread, let us know.

This message is a reply to:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 98 of 235 (647020)
01-07-2012 7:26 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by mike the wiz
01-07-2012 5:56 PM


Re: 6 answers
Personally I value logic more than an induction of confirmation evidence because no matter how impressive the picture of evidence is, technically it CAN, logically be NOT true, (the theory).
If you could find a theory which was logically inconsistent, then you could use that criterion to dismiss it, yes. But for obvious reasons there aren't many of those around.
Apart from that, it's not much use to you. The consistency of a theory obviously can't confirm it, so logic is no use there. So apart from this one special case that doesn't come up very often you have to look at the evidence.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 106 of 235 (647035)
01-07-2012 8:08 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by Anel Vadren
01-07-2012 7:54 PM


Re: LOL!
I do not plan to twiddle long in this thread since I already pointed to my reference.
Well since your "reference" appears to be fatuous and dishonest nonsense, perhaps you have a little more work to do round here.
I do not plan to twiddle long in this thread since I already pointed to my reference. However, I will bring up the major issue with evolution. The ultimate crux of evolution is its illogical standing - Darwinian natural selection.
Natural Selection is a classic circulum in probando (the child of the petitio principii) wherein the claim of science is used as scientific evidence for itself; it is thus known, colloquially, as begging the question. Natural Selection is described in a few different patterns of the petitio principii but the most recent monster of nonsense is that fitness is found within the genes of those who survive (go on to reproduce). This is openly justified, with acceptance from evolutionist biologists, by the fact that those who survive vindicate fit genes.
Let us review:
A. Fitness is the circumstance of containing genes from those who have survived.
B. Survival is reproducing (implying lack of death) to spread fitness.
Now, Natural Selection:
1. The fittest are those who inherent fit genes from previously surviving individuals (i.e. those who reproduce and propagate fitness).
2. Surviving individuals are those who are fittest; that is, survival indicates fitness.
Laughable...
Now, of course, some pedantic pedant will reply with pseudoscientific pish posh by rephrasing the argument of Natural Selection which will undoubtedly alter its standing in semantics but will only further spruce up the fallacy. I have no time for such idiocy; Evolution is hereby debunked because it rests upon the atrocious fallacy of Natural Selection.
It's amazing how much effort you people put in to failing to understand what is, after all, a very simple concept.
Wouldn't it be easier just to understand it?
Let's start at the beginning. Within a population, some animals are better adapted than others to the task of reproducing their genes. These animals will therefore have a statistical tendency to reproduce their genes with greater frequency than those worse adapted to this task.
Do you:
(a) Admit this.
(b) Not understand this.
(c) Deny this. (And if so, why?)
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Anel Vadren, posted 01-07-2012 7:54 PM Anel Vadren has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 109 of 235 (647054)
01-08-2012 12:03 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by foreveryoung
01-07-2012 7:44 PM


Re: 6 answers
I guess you must be the stark raving lunatic because you cannot show me why my reasoning is wrong.
You didn't produce any "reasoning". You gave an example of what you mean by "just so story telling", namely taking the observation of evidence predicted by a theory as evidence for that theory. The rest of us call this "the scientific method", but you are of course free to call it whatever you like.

This message is a reply to:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 113 of 235 (647107)
01-08-2012 6:34 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by Chuck77
01-08-2012 5:48 AM


Re: Poor form
If either one of you could make an attempt to answer the 15 questions that would be cool.
The answers may be found in this thread.
That's why those 15 questions are making a lot of headway.
As you discovered by the process known as "daydreaming"? Or how?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Chuck77, posted 01-08-2012 5:48 AM Chuck77 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by Chuck77, posted 01-08-2012 6:36 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 115 of 235 (647112)
01-08-2012 6:40 AM
Reply to: Message 114 by Chuck77
01-08-2012 6:36 AM


Re: Poor form
Sorry but putting your evolutionistic spin on those questions does nothing to answer them.
Answering them does, however, answer them. You see those things that answer the questions? Those are called "answers", 'cos of them answering things.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 117 of 235 (647117)
01-08-2012 6:51 AM
Reply to: Message 116 by Chuck77
01-08-2012 6:42 AM


Re: One by one
Can you provide the evidence that natural selection is responsible for this?
Let's go one by one starting with question #1.
Show the evidence that supports Natural Selection as the mechanism for this.
But that wasn't the question. The question was, how did it happen? This question has been answered.
Next question.
May as well do #2 also since you respond with the same unsupported answer.
Ditto. The question doesn't ask for a detailed dissertation on how we know the answer, it just asked for the answer.
Next question.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Chuck77, posted 01-08-2012 6:42 AM Chuck77 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by Chuck77, posted 01-08-2012 6:58 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 123 of 235 (647129)
01-08-2012 7:09 AM
Reply to: Message 122 by Chuck77
01-08-2012 7:05 AM


Re: One by one
I'm asking for someone anyone to explain the 15 questions and not give one word answers without supporting evidence.
Then you are asking for something different from the original 15 questions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Chuck77, posted 01-08-2012 7:05 AM Chuck77 has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 126 of 235 (647134)
01-08-2012 7:24 AM
Reply to: Message 120 by Chuck77
01-08-2012 6:58 AM


Re: One by one
Huh? Words games?
Sorry I think your tired Doc. I was responding to bluegenes answer to question one where he sites NS. Maybe you wanna go back and read his answer.
Your short winded replies don't answer the question.
Yes they do.
If you ask a man: "What's your name?" and he says "John", then he has answered the question. He may not have shown you his birth certificate to prove it, but he has answered the question.
Evidence Doc...evidence.
This is exaclty why Percy didn't put this in the Science section because there is none.
The evidence for evolution lies principally in genetics, morphology, embryology, the paleontology, biogeography, and behavioral ecology. I may have missed one or two sciences there, it's getting late. I'm sure you will find these things amply discussed on this forum, or I'm sure you would find them if you could be bothered to look.
But the question, mercifully, did not ask us to teach half-a-dozen branches of science to a creationist, it just asked a question to which the answer is in fact the one word "evolution".
Now if you want more information, you are free to ask for it, here or on a thread where it's on topic, but don't pretend that the original list of questions hasn't been answered, 'cos it has.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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