Evidence to expect given a designer

Hi JBR, Fixed that for you buddy.Mutate and Survive

Hi Chuck, No, scientists have not studied every fossil that exists. Are you suggesting that we reserve judgement until every single tiny shell that ever got stuck in a rock is studied? I would hope not.For now it suffices for me that every single time I find a new fossil it is completely consistent with the ToE. What's more, every time anyone finds a new fossil, it is completely consistent with the ToE. Every single time.No-one is forcing those fossils to support the ToE. There is no conspiracy to hide the counter-examples. All it would take to completely rewrite our understanding of how evolution works would be a single Cambrian rabbit fossil. Or a Devonian ginkgo fossil. Or a Silurian albatross fossil. Or any one of an unimaginably long list of anachronistic fossils. They're never found.Why do you suppose that is?Mutate and Survive

A couple of problems with that;Firstly, it doesn't do anything to falsify the ToE. Such a well evidenced and successful theory isn't going to be cast aside unless you can provide falsifying evidence. In other words, it isn't really enough to say that it supports creationism. You need to falsify the ToE. No Cambrian fossil even comes close to the kind of falsification I'm talking about. If we found a rabbit in the Cambrian, it would blow our current understanding of natural history out of the water. Instead, what we find is that the fauna of the Cambrian was very different to today, with Cambrian examples of major phyla looking radically different to modern organisms. Familiar groups like mammals, birds, fish, amphibians, reptiles, etc. all absent. This is the complete opposite of the biblical account, which has such groups being created at the beginning.Secondly, the idea of "sudden appearance" is outdated. We have plenty of pre-Cambrian fossils, including proposed ancestors for some of the Cambrian animals. Too often creationists hang on to a Nineteenth century view of the fossil record and this is a prime example.Overall, the fact remains that no equivalent to the notorious Cambrian rabbit has been found. Not one. Millions upon millions of fossils have been studied and not one has falsified the ToE. Not one. Doesn't that look a little odd to you? Don't you think that if the ToE were false, then fossils would be found that falsified it? If not, why not? And why aren't creationists out there looking for such a fossil? It would only take one Cambrian rabbit (or equivalent) to throw a monkey wrench into the ToE; why aren't creationists out there looking for it? Could it possibly be because, deep down, they know they won't find it?Doesn't this worry you at all?Mutate and Survive

Huh? Chuck, what are you talking about? Huh?No, I want you to try and falsify the Theory of Evolution.What strawman are you talking about? No, I think you have hold of the wrong end of the stick. The pre-Cambrian rabbit is an iconic example of a potential piece of evidence that would falsify the ToE. Check it out;

quote:

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At one time, "Precambrian rabbits" or "fossil rabbits in the Precambrian" rock samples became popular imagery in debates about the validity of the theory of evolution and the scientific field of evolutionary biology. The images are reported to have been among responses given by the biologist, J.B.S. Haldane, when he was asked what evidence could destroy his confidence in the theory and the field of study. Many of his statements about his scientific research were popularized in his lifetime.

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Some accounts use this response to rebut claims that the theory of evolution is not falsifiable by any empirical evidence. This followed an assertion by philosopher, Karl Popper, who had proposed that falsifiability is an essential feature of a scientific theory. Popper also expressed doubts about the scientific status of evolutionary theory, although he later concluded that the field of study was genuinely scientific.

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Rabbits are mammals. From the perspective of the philosophy of science, it is doubtful whether the genuine discovery of mammalian fossils in Precambrian rocks would overthrow the theory of evolution instantly, although, if authentic, such a discovery would indicate serious errors in modern understanding about the evolutionary process. Mammals are a class of animals, whose emergence in the geologic timescale is dated to much later than any found in Precambrian strata. Geological records indicate that although the first true mammals appeared in the Triassic period, modern mammalian orders appeared in the Palaeocene and Eocene epochs of the Palaeogene period. Hundreds of millions of years separate this period from the Precambrian.

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From Wiki.My dear fellow, I am claiming that the ToE is true.You are claiming that the ToE is false.If you think the ToE is false, you should be able to point to evidence that falsifies it.I think that the Toe is true, so I am under no such obligation.You see how this works? I think that you are drifting into paranoia here. Trust me Chuck, the philosophy of science was not created to irk creationists. Real scientists have better things to do. Despite the comforting delusions of creationists who like to view themselves as being persecuted by a conspiracy of evil atheistic scientists, most actual scientists couldn't give a toss about creationism. It isn't even on their radar. Defining the scientific method isn't really part of the scope of this thread, but yes, I do think that evolutionary biology follows the scientific method. You disagree? Show me where you think it diverges from the method.Mutate and SurviveEdited by Granny Magda, : No reason given.

Chuck... for fuck's sake...The ToE cannot be both unfalsifiable and a lie.If it's unfalsifiable, that means that you can't prove it false.If you can't prove it false, you can't call it a lie. Obviously.Well no, we won't let false information falsify a theory. Why would we?If, on the other hand, you have any real information that would falsify the theory, please present it.Of course, we all know that you don't have anything of the kind. In fact, you aren't even interested in looking for it.Mutate and Survive