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Author Topic:   Jesus the rabbi ?
RebWlmJames
Inactive Member


Message 28 of 42 (64739)
11-06-2003 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Rubten
11-06-2003 11:28 AM


Jesus as rabbi
Someone mentioned that the Sage Hillel I is referred to as "rabbi" in rabbinic literature. Can you direct me to that source.
As far as I know, the term rav and rabbi only came in use after 70 CE.
A good source would be Pirkei Avot, translated as "The Ethics of the Fathers." This tractate of the Mishna records the chain of tradition from Moses on down. None of the sages mentioned who thrived before 70 CE are called "rabbi."

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RebWlmJames
Inactive Member


Message 29 of 42 (64740)
11-06-2003 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Rubten
11-06-2003 11:28 AM


Jesus as rabbi
Someone mentioned that the Sage Hillel I is referred to as "rabbi" in rabbinic literature. Can you direct me to that source.
As far as I know, the term rav and rabbi only came in use after 70 CE.
A good source would be Pirkei Avot, translated as "The Ethics of the Fathers." This tractate of the Mishna records the chain of tradition from Moses on down. None of the sages mentioned who thrived before 70 CE is called "rabbi."
[This message has been edited by RebWlmJames, 11-06-2003]

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RebWlmJames
Inactive Member


Message 35 of 42 (66783)
11-16-2003 5:02 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by crashfrog
11-13-2003 9:45 AM


Jesus as rabbi
ConAtheist: Thanks for that outstanding article. Hegg's conclusion is that calling Jesus a rabbi is probably anachronistic, though calling Rabban Gamliel the Elder presents a problem with that conclusion. Was that your point?

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Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by ConsequentAtheist, posted 11-16-2003 6:34 AM RebWlmJames has replied

  
RebWlmJames
Inactive Member


Message 37 of 42 (66980)
11-17-2003 1:18 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by ConsequentAtheist
11-16-2003 6:34 AM


Re: Jesus as rabbi
Your point is well taken. It is unlikely, though possible, that a relatively unknown itinerant preacher in 30 C.E. or so, would be called "rabbi" by anyone other that his closest and devout disciples, if even they would have used the term.
We don't have any evidence that I know of that Jesus received "semikhah" (as Hegg points out so well). If, as the Cath Ency. says, the term would be like "doctor" today, calling someone a "doctor" (as in one who is permitted to teach doctrine) who had not been licensed with the title by some legimate granting authority would be highly irregular, if not faintly fraudulent. Calling oneself doctor/rabbi would be worse.
I doubt that Jesus would have allowed himself to be called Rabbi, had he not been granted semikha, like Rabban Gamliel, Rabbi Yochanan ben Zakkai, etc. And if he had been granted semikha, one would think that he would have been called Rabbi throughout the New Testament.
I would still hold that calling Jesus rabbi is more than an unfortunate anachronism; it is an attempt to license him with a public title of authority that he probably did not have, and indeed, probably did not seek.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by ConsequentAtheist, posted 11-16-2003 6:34 AM ConsequentAtheist has replied

Replies to this message:
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