Modern Civics

I think folk railing against free democracy need to realize that just because a democracy is a free one, doesn't mean that every imaginable decision gets put to a public vote. As in our own democracy, for example, representatives, elected and not, make almost all of the decisions. Some localities and states differ, but for many, the number of decisions that actually get voted on by the people make up a very very slim minority of all the decisions that end up getting made.And I am actually in favor of limiting this even further.Jon

Huh? What is this a reply to? And how can all make a decision when only most have access to the tool necessary for making that decision?Jon

Certainly electronic versus paper is not the ultimate of discussions in terms of civics... is it?Jon

Stop being ridiculous. You know that is not the point I am making.Fascist. No; you're trying to shove someone else's political ideologies down my throat as I attempt to exercise my constitutional right to vote, and you're using the resources and the power of the government to do so, because you are too godamned lazy to get off your fucking ass and use your own time and resources to send out the information yourself.Fucking fascist. It doesn't matter. When I get to the polling place, I shouldn't be forced to listen to anyone's political ideology before being allowed to vote, including (and especially) the ideologies of those candidates that I have not come to the polls to vote for.Damn fascist.

That's not how I read it at all. Hopefully Phat will return to clear it up.'Cause it really just sounded like he was whining about this or that...Jon

And, of course, I've never said that these restrictions are okay. It's absolutely ridiculous that felons can be denied their constitutional rights. The Constitution should be above the law, not the law above the Constitution.And I've already mentioned my support for including the mentally and physically handicapped (even severely so) in the voting process.Jon

And now we've stepped beyond simply interfering with others' exercise of their constitutional rights and into the realm of deciding that people's votes should be weighted differently based on whether or not they agree with li'l Perdi'.Fascist Who the FUCK cares what is important to the populace!? Voting isn't about the populace; it's about the individual, and only what is important to the individual should matter when the individual goes to exercise his/her/its rights.Wrotten fascist. And here I thought you were being a fascist when all you were really doing was being a...Sneaky fascist. Wah wah... being a dutiful citizen is so much work... boo hoo.Lazy fascist.

Fascist.Edited by Jon, : No reason given.

Fixed that for ya.Jon

No; you're a fascist because you want to restrict people's access to their Constitutional rights because you don't feel they are putting the nation ahead of their own self interests; and because you think uneducated people (who, by the way, are often not uneducated by any will of their own) should not be allowed to participate in their government; and ...Jon

But who is that 'entire nation'? Is it not individuals? Did not the individuals each suffer? Did not the individuals each have the opportunity to correct the errors and change the course? Outside of that 1% of individuals is the other 99%each with an equal say at the polls.I completely disagree with you; the US is not in the mess it is in because of people valuing the individual over the nation, but because too many people failed to value their individual stake and role in the problem and the fact that their individual interests were being threatened. If people had been thinking more about themselves, and less about stupid shit like GDP, they would have long ago realized the dangerous path they were on and taken the necessary steps (voting) to prevent it.But fascists like you had convinced them that everything was fine, because the Nation (a chart of numbers representing the profits of only a handful of companies and individuals) was doing great, while their vacation time disappeared, their health benefits vanished, their wages stagnated, and their friends all got laid off. Fascists love blinding people to their own individualism, because when people are numb to their own selves it's so much easier to shove metal rods up their asses and rape them for all their worth.Jon

Too many.

What if absolutely no one met your standards for intelligence to be allowed to participate in their government?

I think you've said all that needs saying. Top-down approaches never work. Enforced change is neither stable nor effective. And this goes beyond the simply immorality of enslaving people's minds in some quasi democratic dictatorship of forced votes to the simple mechanics of what's effective and what isn't.Forcing people to behave differently simply doesn't work. In the end, all you can do is educate them and give them the tools needed so that hopefully, when the time comes for them to make those important decisions, they will want to make the right ones and not make the right ones simply as a matter of being forced to.Though we've been emphasizing voting, people every day make hundreds of decisions far more lasting and important than the decision of who's going to sit in what chair for the next few years. From where they shop to how they live, people's lifestyle choices can have far-reaching impact on the the planet and the critters that inhabit it. Forcing people to change only makes them miserable, and then we lose the whole battle of trying to make the world a happier place.Civic duty can only start and end with the individual, because it is the individual who holds the power to change themself.Jon

No. For example, I think there are far too many issues that are put to public vote. I think we'd benefit by reducing the number of things available to vote on.