Modern Civics

Can't say you are totally off base, but I still have faith in the individual. One problem is we don't put enough emphasis on responsibility any longer.

Democracy is based on the assumption that a million men are wiser than one man. How’s that again? I missed something.

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Autocracy is based on the assumption that one man is wiser than a million men. Let’s play that over again, too. Who decides?

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Robert A. Heinlein, Time Enough for Love, 1973

I agree.When was the last time you saw a protest with people screaming about their responsibilities?

Hey Dogmafood, I have never heard democracy described in terms of stupidity before. It is a good description. There are lots of good reasons that a good citizen would put the nation above him or herself. If someone does this of their own accord (like the examples I provided in the reply to Coyote) are they a fascist?Am I a fascist because I have chosen not to have more than two children because I put the nation, my planet and my species above my own rights and desires?

Of course not. Perhaps if you tried to force a two child policy on other people for the good of the state?

Hello Dr A, This problem does not go away in a democracy. I would say it is just as much a problem in a democracy. The USA is a democracy. The current financial crisis seems to be caused by people, including politicians acting in their own self interest. We would need to find some people who are extremely altristic. Or have an independant body set their pay.The biggest problem we have seems to be that people are arseholes. I dont know how to fix that. I expand my view to the planet and the species. Is democracy doing this? How do we judge it? But we need individuals to be responsible citizens in order for this idea of democracy to work. People need to be equally invested in fullfilling their responsibilities as they are to demanding their rights.This is not what is happening.Like I said to Coyote, when was the last time you say someone out with a banner screaming at the TV cameras about their responsibilities?

Hey NoNukes,If people are unwilling to do something that will eventually become necessary, then they will eventually be forced to do it anyway.It is not just for the good of my nation.It is for the good of the planet and our species.People need to be controlled. We often wont do the right thing unless we are forced to do it. Thats why we have to have police. People have to be forced not to drive drunk in order to protect other people from being killed. People are arseholes.

Political tags--such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and. so forth--are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. The former are idealists acting from highest motives for the greatest good of the greatest number. The latter are surly curmudgeons, suspicious and lacking in altruism. But they are more comfortable neighbors than the other sort.

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Robert A. Heinlein, Time Enough for Love, 1973

Fixed that for ya.Jon

Hey Jon,Are there police in Minnesota?

No; you're a fascist because you want to restrict people's access to their Constitutional rights because you don't feel they are putting the nation ahead of their own self interests; and because you think uneducated people (who, by the way, are often not uneducated by any will of their own) should not be allowed to participate in their government; and ...Jon

But who is that 'entire nation'? Is it not individuals? Did not the individuals each suffer? Did not the individuals each have the opportunity to correct the errors and change the course? Outside of that 1% of individuals is the other 99%each with an equal say at the polls.I completely disagree with you; the US is not in the mess it is in because of people valuing the individual over the nation, but because too many people failed to value their individual stake and role in the problem and the fact that their individual interests were being threatened. If people had been thinking more about themselves, and less about stupid shit like GDP, they would have long ago realized the dangerous path they were on and taken the necessary steps (voting) to prevent it.But fascists like you had convinced them that everything was fine, because the Nation (a chart of numbers representing the profits of only a handful of companies and individuals) was doing great, while their vacation time disappeared, their health benefits vanished, their wages stagnated, and their friends all got laid off. Fascists love blinding people to their own individualism, because when people are numb to their own selves it's so much easier to shove metal rods up their asses and rape them for all their worth.Jon

Hey Jon, I want people to earn their rights. I am also not American. I have not said anything about contsitutional right. I dont care about the American constitution.I have also repeatedly stated that I expand my view to be the entire planet of Earth and human species.I happily accept your title of fascist if that means that I put the wellbeing of planet and the wellbeing of all humans alive and in the future above my own personal rights and desires. Who is stopping them from finding out the truth before they vote? Who is stopping them getting on the net an doing a bit of research. In the states, less than 60% of people even bother to vote.

Too many.

Not sure what your point is here. My point was that the decisions made in self interest of few people in the USA has caused huge problems for many. Are you agreeing with me? Did not a small amount of people making a huge amount of money to the detriment of the majority?Wiki page - Occupy Wall Street

quote:

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The protests are against social and economic inequality, high unemployment, greed, as well as corruption, and the undue influence of corporationsparticularly from the financial services sectoron government. The protesters' slogan We are the 99% refers to the growing income and wealth inequality in the U.S. between the wealthiest 1% and the rest of the population

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It seems that these folks (the 99%) are protesting because the 1% put their desires of the majority. They wanted shitloads of cash so they screwed heaps of people for it.But I am not talking about the USA an Americans. That is only one country and one group of people. I am talking about the planet Earth and the human species. From my limited knowledge of the US problem, if the few at the top put their nation and the people of their nation before their own desires to accumulate huge wealth, then they would not have gone down a dangerous path in the first place.The US problem has caused economic problems all over the world. How were the people in Ireland supposed to vote to prevent the US problem?Again, I know little and care little about the US problem. My concern is for the planet and the species. What about any of my posts makes you believe that I think things are fine? I actually think the exact opposite and act upon that concern. Refer to my posts on the "Whats the best solution for humanity" thread - Message 1. My concern is for the planet and the species. let me know which people you think are not covered by this grouping and I will alter my scope. This looks like you agree with me? Yes, lots of people got fucked over. If a few people had not been arseholes and put their own individual rights over that of these people, then they would still have their vacation time, their health benefits, their wages and their friends would still have jobs. well thats graphic. I dont have any problem with people being individual. I have a problem with people demanding their right to be individual in order to cause harm to the majority.I believe that the USA was one of the worlds most developed democracies when this problem started.And you are arguing that it is the fascists that will allow it to happen.That does not make sense. The problem in the USA came about not under a fascist form of government, but an extremely free democratic.It seems that you are argueing without realising this.You seem to be saying that fascist governments would lead to the people being blind and sheeplike and they would end up in a situation where their vacation time disappeared, their health benefits vanished, their wages stagnated, and their friends all got laid off.But that is what happened in the USA. In what is arguably the worlds most free and developed democratic system.

--double post deleted--Edited by Butterflytyrant, : No reason given.