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Author Topic:   Why should religion get a free pass?
Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


(1)
Message 91 of 112 (648958)
01-19-2012 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by New Cat's Eye
05-12-2008 3:31 PM


Sorry about not replying. I did reply to your second post, though.
But they are 'off limits' to challenges because they cannot be falsified. So how do you prove them wrong
But if I was to say the fairies in my toilet say that when I die I will become part of the underground kingdom that would be equally unfalsifiable but people would say in a very firm voice 'don't be stupid'.
Why not so for beleiveing that when we die we will ascend to heaven of descend to hell?

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-12-2008 3:31 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-19-2012 4:47 PM Larni has replied
 Message 107 by 1.61803, posted 01-20-2012 11:23 AM Larni has not replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 92 of 112 (648960)
01-19-2012 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by Tangle
01-19-2012 12:27 PM


Yeah, my wife and I brave Chris Moyles when 'thought for the day'.
It is always something like "In this time of economic crisis people crave materialist goods. What would Jesus say?".
Gives me the right 'ump.

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by Tangle, posted 01-19-2012 12:27 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


(1)
Message 93 of 112 (648962)
01-19-2012 2:34 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by NoNukes
01-19-2012 12:50 PM


Re: What would constitute not getting a free pass?
Do we go out of our way to ridicule our co-workers who believe in ghosts or von Daniken conspiracy theories, or do we largely just leave them alone as long as they don't leave their work for us to do?
I'll be honest and say I take them to task.
My wife hates it.

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by NoNukes, posted 01-19-2012 12:50 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 94 of 112 (648968)
01-19-2012 2:49 PM


I can't remember the specifics or even who first said it but it's something along the lines of "a man can say that god talks to him and that's fine and acceptable, but a man that says god talks to him through his toaster is crazy. Why does the addition of a toaster make it crazy?" I want to say Sam Harris, but I'm sure he was repeating it from someone else.

Mythology is what we call someone else’s religion. Joseph Campbell

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


(3)
Message 95 of 112 (648975)
01-19-2012 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by NoNukes
01-19-2012 12:50 PM


Re: What would constitute not getting a free pass?
NoNukes writes:
Do we go out of our way to ridicule our co-workers who believe in ghosts or von Daniken conspiracy theories, or do we largely just leave them alone as long as they don't leave their work for us to do?
Yes, we (or atleast I) do. I have two colleagues who think Derek Ogilvie is the shiznits, and I ride them everytime they bring it up. This of course makes me the asshole (according to them). However, my other two colleagues agree with me, yet don't speak up when they bring that shit up because "well, that's just what they believe". Well yeah, "but if I were to proclaim my belief in the flying spaghetti monster you wouldn't allow me to show up to work in my pirate regalia, now would you, you tosser!" "Now you're just being silly". "Really, what's the difference between one irrational belief and the other?" ".....". "exactly".
Anyway..... That's enough ranting for now. Back to being amicable little Huntard.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by NoNukes, posted 01-19-2012 12:50 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 96 of 112 (648989)
01-19-2012 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Larni
01-19-2012 2:26 PM


But if I was to say the fairies in my toilet say that when I die I will become part of the underground kingdom that would be equally unfalsifiable but people would say in a very firm voice 'don't be stupid'.
Why not so for beleiveing that when we die we will ascend to heaven of descend to hell?
Honestly, I suppose: popularity and tradition.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Larni, posted 01-19-2012 2:26 PM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by Larni, posted 01-19-2012 6:28 PM New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 97 of 112 (649006)
01-19-2012 6:28 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by New Cat's Eye
01-19-2012 4:47 PM


Honestly, I suppose: popularity and tradition.
I think it is different over here. If you have strong religious beliefs it is normally kept quiet as it is often looked on as strange. At least in the circles I move in.
When I do come across someone of faith I try and engage them in lively debate.
My wife hates it.
Edited by Larni, : Stupid iPhone

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-19-2012 4:47 PM New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by NoNukes, posted 01-19-2012 7:02 PM Larni has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 98 of 112 (649013)
01-19-2012 7:02 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by Larni
01-19-2012 6:28 PM


Perhaps religion gets a free pass because people don't want to pay the social costs of ridiculing people who hold views that a large minority of people agree with.
When I debate with creationists on this web page, I find myself having to say very unkind things in response to unkind and/or ridiculous statements. Why would I want to have such a conversation with people that I have to work for, work with, and/or whose company I enjoy.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. The proper place to-day, the only place which Massachusetts has provided for her freer and less desponding spirits, is in her prisons, to be put out and locked out of the State by her own act, as they have already put themselves out by their principles. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Larni, posted 01-19-2012 6:28 PM Larni has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by hooah212002, posted 01-19-2012 7:10 PM NoNukes has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 99 of 112 (649015)
01-19-2012 7:10 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by NoNukes
01-19-2012 7:02 PM


Because I can assure you that 9 out of 10 of those people would very much think differently of you if they knew you were (are you??) an atheist. Atheist is still a dirty word. Numerous polls have shown that a) atheists would never get elected, b) most parents wouldn't let their children date an atheist (in the south, they would let their white daughter marry a black man before an atheist). It's only in the most liberal of liberal parts of the US (Oregon, NY, most of Cali??) where it's no big deal to be an atheist. It's quite alright for religious to get on the street corner and yell about rapture and salvation (Ray fucking Comfort does it in Huntington? beach) but god forbid an atheist says word one about zombie jews "you're oppressing me! Leave my beliefs alone".
So, religion deserves this free pass and it's quite alright to openly mock atheists???

Mythology is what we call someone else’s religion. Joseph Campbell

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by NoNukes, posted 01-19-2012 7:02 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by NoNukes, posted 01-19-2012 7:18 PM hooah212002 has replied
 Message 102 by Larni, posted 01-20-2012 3:25 AM hooah212002 has replied
 Message 109 by 1.61803, posted 01-20-2012 11:47 AM hooah212002 has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 100 of 112 (649016)
01-19-2012 7:18 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by hooah212002
01-19-2012 7:10 PM


Because I can assure you that 9 out of 10 of those people would very much think differently of you if they knew you were (are you??) an atheist.
I'm not an atheist. It turns out that being a Christian does not require me to hold beliefs about cosmology, biology, and paleontology that are contrary to science. I'm also not required to defend or support the beliefs of creationists.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. The proper place to-day, the only place which Massachusetts has provided for her freer and less desponding spirits, is in her prisons, to be put out and locked out of the State by her own act, as they have already put themselves out by their principles. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by hooah212002, posted 01-19-2012 7:10 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by hooah212002, posted 01-19-2012 7:28 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 101 of 112 (649017)
01-19-2012 7:28 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by NoNukes
01-19-2012 7:18 PM


What beliefs are you talking about?
I said that mockingly and was paraphrasing. But if you insist, I was referring to the beliefs that make you a christian.

Mythology is what we call someone else’s religion. Joseph Campbell

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by NoNukes, posted 01-19-2012 7:18 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 102 of 112 (649048)
01-20-2012 3:25 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by hooah212002
01-19-2012 7:10 PM


I think it must be a bit different over here. Anyone who firmly witnesses their xian beliefs gets funny looks and is given a wide birth.
A bit like how one might treat some who really believes in astrology or mediums: someone not quite 'with it'.
Saying "I don't believe in god" nets far less negativity.

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by hooah212002, posted 01-19-2012 7:10 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by Tangle, posted 01-20-2012 4:31 AM Larni has replied
 Message 112 by hooah212002, posted 01-20-2012 4:19 PM Larni has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 103 of 112 (649050)
01-20-2012 4:31 AM
Reply to: Message 102 by Larni
01-20-2012 3:25 AM


Larni writes:
I think it must be a bit different over here. Anyone who firmly witnesses their xian beliefs gets funny looks and is given a wide birth.
It's much, much different - although it's changing for the worse here too. Religious beliefs are rarely mentioned in politics here and if they are, people are suspicious of them. Tony Blair's government famously said "we don't do God", then as soon as he was out of office he got himself baptised Catholic - the two faced, lying git.
The US is very different - for a country that tries to keep religion out of its secular institutions, it's all over them. Compared to the UK, the US is obsessed with religion and to a Brit's eyes it's often a quite extreme form of fundamental Christianity.
I'd never a met a fundy until I went to Colorado - they're a frightening bunch. A woman asked me if I was going to go to their church on Sunday, I explained that I was an atheist so no. She took a step backwards grabbed her child and scurried off. Mediaeval behaviour but not, unfortunately, a one off.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Larni, posted 01-20-2012 3:25 AM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by Larni, posted 01-20-2012 4:43 AM Tangle has replied
 Message 106 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-20-2012 5:29 AM Tangle has replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 104 of 112 (649052)
01-20-2012 4:43 AM
Reply to: Message 103 by Tangle
01-20-2012 4:31 AM


Recoiling in horror.
I explained that I was an atheist so no. She took a step backwards grabbed her child and scurried off. Mediaeval behaviour but not, unfortunately, a one off.
I remember my dad say about people and religion "I don't care if people are religious, just ass long as they don't ram it down my throat".
I wonder if fundies think that atheist want to ram their lack of belief down the fundies throat or, that atheism is catching and that's why the woman recoiled from you?

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Tangle, posted 01-20-2012 4:31 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by Tangle, posted 01-20-2012 5:03 AM Larni has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 105 of 112 (649054)
01-20-2012 5:03 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by Larni
01-20-2012 4:43 AM


Re: Recoiling in horror.
I wonder if fundies think that atheist want to ram their lack of belief down the fundies throat or, that atheism is catching and that's why the woman recoiled from you?
The look on her face was a combination of surprise and fear. Sort of "I thought you were such a nice man, now I've just found out that you're an axe murderer"
They genuinely think that you're Satan. I've had one tell me as much.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Larni, posted 01-20-2012 4:43 AM Larni has not replied

  
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