Summations Only

It is certainly an important debate to have, if not for the simple idea that it will bring the correct ethical position to the forefront.The problem is that the doctor gets stuck in the middle. If I understand the Hippocratic Oath properly, a doctor has sworn to withhold moral judgements and treat an illness for the good of the patient. A doctor is NOT supposed to judge a person, and then withhold treatment if they find that patient wonting. It goes against everything a doctor should believe. Even more, how can a doctor willingly participate in a system that violates the very oath they have taken?ABE: There is also the idea that we should not ask doctors to do something that we would not be willing to do. Could you sit in front of a family and tell them that their dad is not going to get a potentially life saving treatment because you think he will take to drink after the surgery? I couldn't do it. No way. I would treat them. They are people, just like us. They want to live just as much as any of us do. Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

Well isn't that rich, you can stuff your face for years and not do an ounce of exercise then they get to call themselves a "person in need." I'm think this is a joke. Young, yes. Fit, definitely. Old and handycapped? I don't think so. Unless it's someone like Mr. LaLanne or the guys who play murderball. It's not the nations job to keep the food out of our mouth and make sure we exercise.- Oni

Fine if you want to get into semantics.The fact is, even if the fatties get to work, which most don't and that's a fact, they will still be a bigger burden on the state because of their unhealthy lifestyle. And they don't deserve it. They're killing themselves, why should we care if they don't care for themselves?- Oni

With Mod's plea for topicality in mind.....Can you explain why the US, lacking public nationalised healthcare, suffers from all of the obesity and self-inflicted health problems you keep citing whilst Scandanavian countries, with their generous and all-encompassing state healthcare programmes, do not?Are Americans fat unhealthy layabouts because they don't have nationalised health insurance in place?Would socialised healthcare improve on the problems you cite rather than exacerbate them?

High calorie diets, lots of fast food and candy, zero exercise, lots of tv time.There are ZERO fast food places in the entire country of Scandinavia. Thus they are healthier. No absolutely not. They are unhealthy layabouts (or slobs if you will) because they eat very very poorly. I will admit to once during my unenlightened days going to Mc Donalds. I can tell you that I didn't want to move after that meal. And, since most Americans eat fast food for all 3 main meals of the day, is there any wonder why we're unhealthy fatty fat fats? No. Closing one Mc Donalds per week will get you better results.- Oni

Because it is the moral and ethical thing to do.

In a world of perfectly matched supply and demand, there would be less to argue about. However, if there are two patients requiring a heart transplant, but only one heart. One is a smoker who refuses to give up whilst the other is a smoker that already has, a choice has to be made. In these cases, doctors are forced to make not so much moral decisions but clinical and economic decisions - providing the optimised good.

No, but it's in the nation's best interest to do so. I didn't call them 'persons', so your objection is baseless. Meant to illustrate the importance of each individual to the collective prosperity.Jon

Im not fat, im in my twenties, i eat well and i exercise.For the past year i have lived on the the fifth floor, stairs, no elevator.
Before that, i lived on the fourth floor for 4 years, stairs, no elevator.Im not fat, im not old, im the stairmaster. So how would a low carb diet have prevented my incidents?

Obviously, a bad diet makes your inner ear "fat" even if the rest of your body isn't. If your inner ear were "skinnier" you wouldn't fall./"dark" Oni

Universal healthcare is not free healthcare.

Oni has definitely been hacked or he is pulling huge mind game. The Oni I know and could have loved would never make the mistake of calling Scandinavia a country. The statement in a sense is true because Scandinavia is not a country.Sweden

quote:

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On the fast food side, pizza and hot dogs have been a ubiquitous part of Swedish culture since the 1960s.

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Swedish cuisine - WikipediaThere are McDonalds in all of the Scandinavian Countries.Sweden 230
Norway 68
Denmark 83
SourceOni would never be this sloppy.

"Oni has definitely been hacked or he is pulling huge mind game. The Oni I know and could have loved would never make the mistake of calling Scandinavia a country. The statement in a sense is true because Scandinavia is not a country."Then again Ms Palin referred to Africa as a country so no biggie I guess Those blanket statements are hazardous to begin with. We in Finland have 93 McDonalds plus other chains so availability is not an issue.What I would like to point out are the childens healthcare clinics:Maternity and children’s clinics serve families expecting babies and those with children under school age. The clinics follow the progress of pregnancies, the health of mothers and unborn babies and the growth and development of the children. It is also the duty of clinics to prevent illnesses, detect them in their early stages, promote family well-being and support parenthood.The idea behind that is that by pro-active measures health and well-being can be promoted and corrected if necessary. And since regular checks become a norm from early age, it is easier to continue them throughout your life.Status - Ministry of Social Affairs and HealthI am strongly in favor of universal free healthcare - when a person need not worry whether his/her falling ill will destroy familys economics, a person can concentrate on work or studies better.

The parody continues....But on a serious note - The easiest way for private insurers to reduce costs seems to be to find loopholes in coverage so that they don't have to payout even when people get ill. In a universal healthcare system this isn't an option. So prevention becomes a better way to reduce costs. The Scandanavian system seems very good on prevention. I see. Your answer to America's health problems isn't to provide a nationalised health service but is to instead provide a nationalised health-food and gym chain? Free salads, riveta and soy milk distributed to all and a chain of nationalised gyms free at the point of entryI like your thinking...... Or you could tax unhealthy food in the same sort of way we tax cigarettes. It might deter people. And if it doesn't at least the costs of any medical treatment they might need have been covered.

What's "the nation"? Me? You? The government?You want government, or me, getting involved in what you feed yourself?- Oni