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Author Topic:   Shakespeare Oxfordians - the Academic Creationists?
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 16 of 23 (64803)
11-06-2003 6:11 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Dan Carroll
11-06-2003 6:05 PM


My favorite is the one about how all the Detroit carmakers have super-secret anti-gravity cars, but the tiremakers won't let them sell them. (Or like the 100-mile-a-gallon carburator.

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 Message 15 by Dan Carroll, posted 11-06-2003 6:05 PM Dan Carroll has not replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 17 of 23 (64881)
11-07-2003 8:06 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by crashfrog
11-06-2003 5:15 PM


crashfrog writes:
quote:
Yes, but it's not like they're saying Marlowe moved to France or something.
Actually, that's precisely what they're saying.
Why do you think so many of Shakespeare's plays are set in Italy? Because Marlowe faked his death and moved to Italy.
Of course, the fact that the first play Shakespeare set in Italy, Two Gentlemen of Verona, gets the geography all wrong (Sebastian goes to Milan from Verona by boat. Milan, however, is inland from Verona...you wouldn't go there by boat but overland) is glossed over.
There was a program that I am certain was on PBS but it might have been one of the other educational channels or perhaps BBC America that dealt with the Marlowe claim and it pointed out this aspect (that Marlowe moved to Italy after his faked death) of the assertion. Apparently, those who claim Marlowe was Shakespeare have traced his supposed movements in Italy. Alas, I cannot recall the name of the program. It included discussion about how one of the big Marlowe proponents claimed that original Shakespeare scripts would be found in the grave of somebody (I recall it being Marlowe's publisher, but I think I'm wrong on that) and thus, it would prove that Marlowe was Shakespeare. He got special permission to dig up the grave...finding absolutely nothing.
My undergraduate had a project to analyze with computers the text of Shakespeare for word choice, sentence style, etc. and compare them to various authors who are claimed to be Shakespeare (Marlowe, de Vere, even Queen Elizabeth has proponents) and found that the text of Shakespeare is linguistically unique.
On a somewhat related note, my production of The Compleat Wrks of Wllm Shkspr (abridged) has been picked up for an extended run. For those of you in the San Diego area, come see. Details can be found at the theatre's web site, Sixth @ Penn.
And for those who have a vendetta against me, go see the official Reduced Shakespeare Company in their latest production, All the Great Books (abridged) at the San Diego Rep
------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

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roxrkool
Member (Idle past 988 days)
Posts: 1497
From: Nevada
Joined: 03-23-2003


Message 18 of 23 (64970)
11-07-2003 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Rrhain
11-07-2003 8:06 AM


Rrhain! That IS you!! lol
Wow. And you're an actor. I never would have guessed in a million years. Cool.
I was in San Diego a couple weeks ago. If I had known about your show, I would have liked to see it. Good luck! OOPS! I mean break a leg.
Edited to add: Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread. Enjoying the thread, by the way. Never knew about a Shakespeare conspiracy. Carry on.
[This message has been edited by roxrkool, 11-07-2003]

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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 19 of 23 (64971)
11-07-2003 2:00 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by roxrkool
11-07-2003 1:55 PM


Just on the off chance that there is someone here who hasn't seen it, I recommend "Shakespeare in Love" the movie.
It makes great fun of the Marlowe-Shakespeare thing, and more besides.
Also observe the nasty little boy in there who snitches on them. I did a bit of research and I'm pretty sure I know what that is about. If you ask nicely I might divulge my theory there.

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roxrkool
Member (Idle past 988 days)
Posts: 1497
From: Nevada
Joined: 03-23-2003


Message 20 of 23 (64988)
11-07-2003 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by NosyNed
11-07-2003 2:00 PM


Actually, I did see that movie, but apparently the whole Marlowe-Shakespeare thing was lost on me. I'll need to go back a see it again based on this new knowledge.
Little boy??? The one who told about the affair? Please please with a cherry on top???

This message is a reply to:
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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 21 of 23 (65000)
11-07-2003 5:18 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by roxrkool
11-07-2003 3:42 PM


Little boy and Marlowe
As the movie unfolds you would notice that marlowe keeps supplying ideas for the "Ethelred and the Pirate King" play. He ends up writing a lot of it indirectly.
I noticed that the little boy's full name is mentioned and it is clear he would be young teens. (but can't rember the name John Webster? maybe). I googled the name.
I find that there was a playwright and poet who would have been about 13 in 1593 (the time of writing of Romeo and Juliet). In about 1620 area he wrote a couple of really awful sonnets that have to do with death and dying, the gallows and such. Very, very morbid and nasty. I'm pretty sure that the little boy snitch who fed mice to a cat (if I remember right) is supposed to be that guy. I'm wondering how much other stuff is buried in there, the writers must have had a ball writing the movie script.
added
I seem to have remembered correctly (maybe) this site praises his work a bit.
http://www.imagi-nation.com/moonstruck/clsc27.html
from that site:
Webster has sometimes been criticized for the limited scope of his plays. He knows nothing, for instance, of the tenderness and pleasant fantasy of Shakespeare. It was mankind's anguish and evil alone which captured his imagination
[This message has been edited by NosyNed, 11-07-2003]

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 22 of 23 (65011)
11-07-2003 6:12 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by NosyNed
11-07-2003 2:00 PM


Just on the off chance that there is someone here who hasn't seen it, I recommend "Shakespeare in Love" the movie.
Yes, very good indeed. (Largely the inspiration for my novel, which could be described as "Shakespeare in Trouble".) Although as I research I realize that the screenwriters take considerable liberties with chronology, but that's their right, really. (I'm trying to stay a little closer to the actual history, but that's just me, I guess.)

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 23 of 23 (65015)
11-07-2003 6:25 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by roxrkool
11-07-2003 3:42 PM


Actually, I did see that movie, but apparently the whole Marlowe-Shakespeare thing was lost on me. I'll need to go back a see it again based on this new knowledge.
The Shakspeare-Marlowe relationship is rather to central to the movie, I thought. For instance when he auditions people for Romeo, they all perform that line from Marlowe's Dr. Faustus: "Is this the face that launched a thousand ships / and burned the topless towers of Illium?" (I thought that was really funny.)
Then they have Rupert Everett in an uncredited role as Marlowe, which I came to realize was a nice touch, as Marlowe was supposedly gay.
Also the "Lord Wessex" is an apparently fictional title, as the baronage of Wessex did not exist past Anglo-Saxon times. In 1999 Queen Elizabeth II did, however, create an Earlship of Wessex for Prince Edward, based on not the historical existence of Wessex, but the setting for Thomas Hardy's novels. Life imitates art, I guess.
I don't know why any of this is relevant to the topic, but I thought you all might like to know.

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