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Author Topic:   Evidence for the Supernatural
Warthog
Member (Idle past 3968 days)
Posts: 84
From: Earth
Joined: 01-18-2012


(4)
Message 67 of 107 (650223)
01-29-2012 5:51 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by Buzsaw
01-28-2012 4:00 PM


Re: Debating Skeptics
quote:
Any objectively honest person cannot deny many fulfilled corroborative, observable fulfilled prophecies cited by me as evidence supportive to the existence of a higher intelligence than we experience on our itty bitty planet in the unsearchably (self explanitory Buzism adjective) immense and unsearchably complex Universe
I have to ask...
What observable fulfilled prophecies cited by you as evidence? You have given one broad example without even a biblical quote. This isn't 'citing', this is insisting.
Prove it.
In a thread about evidence for the supernatural, I have seen nothing more than 'I've got this feeling' examples.
I can accept the feeling that these are special or supernatural but I also see that people attribute the reason to their personal beliefs. I doubt a buddhist or muslim would come to the same conclusion as a christian any more than a skeptical atheist.
People naturally see coincidences and selectively memorize them. I don't know why but I know they do (Marketing is evil ). Suddenly seeing more examples of a car you have just bought driving around is a common example of this process.
I believe nator nailed more than eight years ago with...
quote:
What does a non-coincidence look like?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Buzsaw, posted 01-28-2012 4:00 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by Buzsaw, posted 01-29-2012 9:10 AM Warthog has replied

  
Warthog
Member (Idle past 3968 days)
Posts: 84
From: Earth
Joined: 01-18-2012


(1)
Message 74 of 107 (650277)
01-29-2012 5:05 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by Buzsaw
01-29-2012 9:10 AM


Re: Debating Skeptics
Thanks for the link but I didn't see any evidence there. It appears to me that you are using the bible to prove the bible.
I have looked for outside sources which corroborate your historical references in the thread and haven't found any. If you have more information than I do, could you post links?
What I have found is that archaeology does not support most biblical history in detail. I am not very well versed in the history of the region and was hoping for more than this. As you are confidently stating that this is historical fact, I assumed that you would have evidence from archaeology to back it up.
It appears to me that The Illiad can be seen as just as accurate according to presented evidence.
Of course, this is not the subject of the OP, which is evidence of the supernatural. I have still seen none...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Buzsaw, posted 01-29-2012 9:10 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by Buzsaw, posted 01-29-2012 10:31 PM Warthog has replied

  
Warthog
Member (Idle past 3968 days)
Posts: 84
From: Earth
Joined: 01-18-2012


Message 85 of 107 (650332)
01-30-2012 8:27 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by Buzsaw
01-29-2012 10:31 PM


Re: Debating Skeptics (Sometime A Venture In Futility
I don't understand...
Ezekiel 37:25 and Genesis 13:14 seem to say that the Jews will get Israel forever, while Amos 9:14 contradicts this by stating that they will be 'plucked up out of their land'. Which of these are the true prophecies?
quote:
Then you look up recent history and find that the long time relatively desolate land has been irrigated, blooming and that Israel is the only nation in that region of the world that actually exports produce. You find that there's been numerous wars as all of the large Islamic nations have tried to knock out Israel, etc, etc.
recent history shows me a politically engineered state created to mitigate religious conflicts between the Jews and the Arabs, beginning with the Peel Commission of 1937 - the first suggestion from the then dominant British for a two state solution. After WWII and the creation of Israel as a separate state, the US got involved an the area and turned Israel into a defacto military base.
Since then, the tiny nation of Israel defends itself against all odds by the enthusiastic flexing of a military that costs the US almost 2 Billion dollars a year to fund, dwarfing its opposition.
The reason I bring all of this up is that, go figure - I don't find any of this unusual and here's why...
With a strong cultural and religious tradition closely tied to their ethnicity and status as the 'Chosen People', the Jews would naturally preserve their identity in this manner. Mostly, this is normal and universal cultural/social behaviour - The Romani people have managed this for up to 3000 years without even the bonding element of a historical homeland or exclusive religion.
If you add to this some good old fashioned religious persecution from the offspring of Judaism - Christianity and Islam - you have the formula to create an armour-plated culture resistant to outside forces. Xenophobia even.
Remember that it was (partly) Jewish Terrorism which led to the creation of the modern State of Israel. As one of the core wishes of the Jewish culture was to return to the holy land, it is hardly surprising that there was a consistent effort to make this happen after the turmoil and displacement of war. Consider also the consider the horrific details of the time regarding the Jews, which could only strengthen this desire.
While there are a few correct predictions, my research into the history of the bible suggests that at least some of them were written after the fact, which lessens their prophetic nature somewhat. As Coyote pointed out, none are specific enough to be truly credible as individual cases. Message 77
I'm pretty sure that you'll disagree with me but I don't see any of this as evidence for the powers of prophecy.
I certainly don't see it as evidence for the supernatural. That would require backup from archaeology as a minimum. I have not found any - mostly the opposite or nothing at all.
Still hoping you have more information that you have not shared yet.
Edited by Warthog, : Broken link fix

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Buzsaw, posted 01-29-2012 10:31 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Warthog
Member (Idle past 3968 days)
Posts: 84
From: Earth
Joined: 01-18-2012


Message 93 of 107 (650390)
01-30-2012 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by DrJones*
01-30-2012 2:11 PM


Re: Israel's Occupation
quote:
. All the DNA studies done on the Beta israel were done after 1991 and point to the Beta Israel being of an african descent not middle-eastern.
Cool - I just learned something. I always thought that the Jews were of one genetic group.
Thanks Dr Jones.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by DrJones*, posted 01-30-2012 2:11 PM DrJones* has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by DrJones*, posted 01-30-2012 4:52 PM Warthog has replied
 Message 95 by jar, posted 01-30-2012 5:01 PM Warthog has not replied
 Message 96 by bluegenes, posted 01-30-2012 5:32 PM Warthog has not replied

  
Warthog
Member (Idle past 3968 days)
Posts: 84
From: Earth
Joined: 01-18-2012


Message 97 of 107 (650404)
01-30-2012 6:06 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by DrJones*
01-30-2012 4:52 PM


Re: Israel's Occupation
quote:
"Jew" is both a religious group and an ethnic group, I could convert and be a Jew despite not have any middle eastern ancestry.
That, I knew. I was referring to the ethnic group. This is why I referred to the Romani in an earlier post.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by DrJones*, posted 01-30-2012 4:52 PM DrJones* has not replied

  
Warthog
Member (Idle past 3968 days)
Posts: 84
From: Earth
Joined: 01-18-2012


Message 101 of 107 (650428)
01-31-2012 6:08 AM
Reply to: Message 98 by Buzsaw
01-30-2012 8:14 PM


Re: Israel's Occupation
quote:
The problem with your straw-man data is that what the observable evidence pertaining to the prophets show, is that the promise of Jehovah to Abram, Isaac and confirmed to Jacob that the land would be restored in the latter days, to become Israel's land foreverm is on tract. Despite all of the waring nations committed to tiny Israel's demise, surrounding her, she has withstood them all, still Jewish and still powerful.
Buz,
I think the problem with your argument is that what you have presented here so far is really just a few cherry picked references from one source and quite nonspecific. They are uncorroborated by any other evidence. I have given my response to these in an earlier post and had no reply from you.
Can I take it that you feel that my post is irrefutable? If not, then please show me evidence that my points are wrong.
What you have described is essentially self-fulfilling and vague prophecy that you are asserting is evidence.
As I said before... In a thread about evidence for the supernatural, I have seen nothing more than 'I've got this feeling' examples.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by Buzsaw, posted 01-30-2012 8:14 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
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