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Author Topic:   The Irrefutable Public Health Care Thread
onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 166 of 314 (650598)
02-01-2012 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 165 by frako
02-01-2012 10:58 AM


Re: Fat Tax
you also probably loose your yob if your drunk at work
I think you're drunk at your yob right now.
- Oni
Edited by onifre, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by frako, posted 02-01-2012 10:58 AM frako has replied

Replies to this message:
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frako
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 167 of 314 (650600)
02-01-2012 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 166 by onifre
02-01-2012 11:04 AM


Re: Fat Tax
I think you're drunk at your yob right not.
Well im the boss so i can be as drunk as i want to be
I did have to fire a guy who was constantly drunk at the workplace, not that he drank at the workplace he was still drunk from the previous night.
Not that the problem was his work efficiency but had he had an accident id have a whole brigade of inspectors at my dor trying to probe my ass for any signs of anything else not right.
Edited by frako, : No reason given.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

This message is a reply to:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 9975
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 168 of 314 (650604)
02-01-2012 11:28 AM
Reply to: Message 157 by onifre
02-01-2012 2:09 AM


Re: Fat Tax
This line of reasoning has arbitrarily placed a headache in my head.
To put it another way, is there anything that humans do that can be qualified as supernatural? If not, then everything humans do is natural.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by onifre, posted 02-01-2012 2:09 AM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
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onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 169 of 314 (650630)
02-01-2012 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by Taq
02-01-2012 11:28 AM


Re: Fat Tax
To put it another way, is there anything that humans do that can be qualified as supernatural?
I once saw a fatty eat 5 Big Macs in one lunch session. That's supernatural.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
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frako
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 170 of 314 (650638)
02-01-2012 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by onifre
02-01-2012 1:01 PM


Re: Fat Tax
I once saw a fatty eat 5 Big Macs in one lunch session. That's supernatural.
Nope your hot dog eating competitors are supernatural.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by onifre, posted 02-01-2012 1:01 PM onifre has not replied

  
Warthog
Member (Idle past 3969 days)
Posts: 84
From: Earth
Joined: 01-18-2012


Message 171 of 314 (650653)
02-01-2012 4:40 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by onifre
02-01-2012 10:54 AM


Re: Parody Logic
quote:
P90 X has been known to cure downs. Look it up.
Just the ticket to shed that pesky extra chromosome for that summer bikini body. Now I know you're taking the piss.
quote:
A healthy, balanced diet with an intense work out program WILL cure depression. That is a fact and you don't need to look it up, cause I'm telling you it is.
Congratulations - that's the dumbest oversimplification I've read for a while. It even beats the fundies. I won't take issue with it 'cause I know you're taking the piss.
quote:
Your third world opinion doesn't really matter to me.
Hey, I'm not the one living in a country that is in so much debt that it's basically owned by China. But that's ok 'cause I don't have to live there and I know that you're taking the piss.
quote:
Nature is brutal and only the strong and fit should survive.
In this context, 'fit' has nothing to do with owning an abcersiser. The really smart people know that the fat ones will take longer to starve when your economy finally collapses under it's own weight. Now that's natural selection.
Nothing is as brutal as a horde of fat people fighting over the last slice of pizza. Bulimic fitness dweebs wouldn't last a minute.
Time for a BK delivery - you'll feel better. Over here, we don't need home delivery - our universal health care means that everyone is able to walk there for themselves.
Edited by Warthog, : No reason given.
Edited by Warthog, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by onifre, posted 02-01-2012 10:54 AM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by hooah212002, posted 02-01-2012 4:59 PM Warthog has replied
 Message 175 by onifre, posted 02-02-2012 3:17 PM Warthog has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 172 of 314 (650656)
02-01-2012 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by Warthog
02-01-2012 4:40 PM


Re: Parody Logic
In this context, 'fit' has nothing to do with owning an abcersiser. The really smart people know that the fat ones will take longer to starve when your economy finally collapses under it's own weight. Now that's natural selection.
But the fat ones will taste better. What tastes better: pig or horse? Cow or chicken? Ding ding! The fatter ones always taste better. Plus, they are easier to catch. So we won't have to worry about fatties starving to death because we will have eaten them well before they do so.

Mythology is what we call someone else’s religion. Joseph Campbell

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Warthog
Member (Idle past 3969 days)
Posts: 84
From: Earth
Joined: 01-18-2012


Message 173 of 314 (650665)
02-01-2012 7:40 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by hooah212002
02-01-2012 4:59 PM


Re: Parody Logic
quote:
But the fat ones will taste better. What tastes better: pig or horse? Cow or chicken? Ding ding! The fatter ones always taste better. Plus, they are easier to catch. So we won't have to worry about fatties starving to death because we will have eaten them well before they do so.
Irrefutable logic.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by hooah212002, posted 02-01-2012 4:59 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 174 of 314 (650672)
02-01-2012 8:22 PM


Moderator Request
This is the Coffee House forum, for conversations of all kinds. Serious conversations, joking around, they're both good here, but they don't necessarily mix well in the same thread. Be respectful of serious arguments, laugh at the jokes.
Edited by AdminModulous, : changed tid to fid.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 175 of 314 (650751)
02-02-2012 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by Warthog
02-01-2012 4:40 PM


Re: Parody Logic
Congratulations - that's the dumbest oversimplification I've read for a while. It even beats the fundies.
Oh really? Name one person who is in shape that is also depressed.
I see the moderator has made a request, so I'll get serious.
Americans trying to get free healthcare should take better care of their health. Untill we do, we don't get free healthcare.
Hey, I'm not the one living in a country that is in so much debt that it's basically owned by China.
If you're implying that's the US, HA! We have a Chinatown here, many of tthem. Who needs the real China?
In this context, 'fit' has nothing to do with owning an abcersiser. The really smart people know that the fat ones will take longer to starve when your economy finally collapses under it's own weight. Now that's natural selection.
Nothing is as brutal as a horde of fat people fighting over the last slice of pizza. Bulimic fitness dweebs wouldn't last a minute.
No such collapes is coming.
Over here, we don't need home delivery - our universal health care means that everyone is able to walk there for themselves.
You're slowly turning into these fat Americans. Keep adding fast food places, you'll see.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by Warthog, posted 02-01-2012 4:40 PM Warthog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-02-2012 3:28 PM onifre has replied
 Message 177 by Warthog, posted 02-02-2012 9:34 PM onifre has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 176 of 314 (650754)
02-02-2012 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by onifre
02-02-2012 3:17 PM


Re: Parody Logic
You sound like one of "Bill Hicks's Non-Smokers"
Do you go up to cripples and dance too?

I should mention that I do like your point that its silly for people to abuse the shit out of their bodies and then demand free healthcare.
Edited by Catholic Scientist, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by onifre, posted 02-02-2012 3:17 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 179 by onifre, posted 02-03-2012 3:10 AM New Cat's Eye has replied
 Message 180 by Straggler, posted 02-03-2012 7:56 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Warthog
Member (Idle past 3969 days)
Posts: 84
From: Earth
Joined: 01-18-2012


(5)
Message 177 of 314 (650795)
02-02-2012 9:34 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by onifre
02-02-2012 3:17 PM


Re: Parody Logic
quote:
Oh really? Name one person who is in shape that is also depressed.
My wife. Diagnosed with bipolar affective disorder in 1992.
In the past 20 years, we have both learned a lot about this.
She eats well and suffers from regular excercise. She is in better shape than I am. When she hits a depressive episode, everything collapses - this has very little to do with diet and activity. There is a tiny correlation between activity and her emotional state but it is more to do with being outside than either of the above factors. Sitting on the beach is more effective than a 5 mile run.
I know on a very intimate level that you are talking out of your arse on this one.
quote:
Americans trying to get free healthcare should take better care of their health. Untill we do, we don't get free healthcare
People should take better care of themselves even if they can afford to pay for medical care. This point is obvious and healthcare has nothing to do with it.
Seriously, you are confusing two separate issues...
Self care (diet and excercise) are education issues. These are things that should be taught to kids, not clumsily forced on adults. That approach never works. This is an education issue. The alternative is prohibition on alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, sugar, fat, loud music(hearing impairment) and pretty much everything in our modern world. Everything can be harmful to your health when in excess.
"Good habits formed at youth make all the difference" Aristotle, I think.
Health Care is the second issue. This is about treatment of current problems. Although unhealthy lifestyles influence this and can sometimes affect decisions relating to treatment (like transplants for smokers), the core issue is in dealing with current problems. Telling someone that they shouldn't have had all those beers and pizzas over the years is not the right answer when they have a broken leg.
You are suggesting a punitive system where the 'healthy' are rewarded and the 'unhealthy' are punished. Who gets to decide which side of the fence you are on? How about the majority of problems that have little or nothing to do with weight/fitness? How long do you have to be a reformed smoker/alcoholic/fattie to be considered 'fit'? The results of smoking hang around long after you quit - are you sure you've made it onto the right side of the fence yet? There is good argument for saying that you are never completely over smoking.
Without universal health care, people who need a little help to keep themselves in good shape can't afford it, dooming them to a slow decline. Without universal health care, I would be mostly blind (saved by childhood surgery), my wife - and many others would be dead from appendicitis. None of this has anything to do with your unhealthy obsession with food and running around.
quote:
If you're implying that's the US, HA! We have a Chinatown here, many of tthem. Who needs the real China?
quote:
No such collapes is coming.
That 'whoosh' sound you just heard was my points going completely over your head.
quote:
You're slowly turning into these fat Americans. Keep adding fast food places, you'll see.
Sadly, there's an element of truth in that. This is an issue of education, culture and even marketing. This is not about universal health care. I'm pretty sure that we have about as much fast food here as in the US but the obesity problem is lower. I wonder why that could be?
quote:
I see the moderator has made a request, so I'll get serious.
Not yet, you haven't.
Now, what I'd really like you to do is have a go at addressing my serious points in this post and preceding ones instead of ignoring them and making kindergarden fat and race jokes.
Your argument so far is on the level of fundies.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by onifre, posted 02-02-2012 3:17 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by onifre, posted 02-03-2012 2:47 AM Warthog has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 178 of 314 (650800)
02-03-2012 2:47 AM
Reply to: Message 177 by Warthog
02-02-2012 9:34 PM


Re: Parody Logic
I see you got 3 "likes" for your post. I'm guessing people here have lost their minds and don't know good from poorly written anymore.
Anyway...
My wife. Diagnosed with bipolar affective disorder in 1992.
Well, since we're just serving up anecdotes: I present ME. Self diagnosed depressed. Cured it with an active lifestyle and good dieting.
Bi-Polar is not just depression, it's also euphoric happyness. So her depression has a source, it's that her highs are TOO high. She has to crash. That's not just depression like we were discussing.
Depression is cured through healthy, active living, everyone knows that.
Either way, I still think she's more than likely fat and you're not being honest about it.
Sitting on the beach is more effective than a 5 mile run.
She's probably just stressed out.
People should take better care of themselves even if they can afford to pay for medical care.
No I meant just Americans, not "people" as in everybody. I don't really care if the rest of the world is over weight and ugly.
"Good habits formed at youth make all the difference" Aristotle, I think.
No, I think I said that earlier in this thread. Don't get yourself confused.
You are suggesting a punitive system where the 'healthy' are rewarded and the 'unhealthy' are punished. Who gets to decide which side of the fence you are on?
Yes, that's exactly what I'm suggesting.
Who gets to decide? How about a scale? A fat test? No person is going to make a subjective decision, it'll all be by a chart. It needs to be fair. Then you'll see people get healthy quick when there's a reward at the end for being healthy. As it is now, people are rewarded for being UN-healthy.
Without universal health care, people who need a little help to keep themselves in good shape can't afford it, dooming them to a slow decline.
I'm sorry but that's what nature wants, that's what happens to every other species. We by-pass this with healthcare and have now over populated the planet and we're running out of resources.
I'm pretty sure that we have about as much fast food here as in the US but the obesity problem is lower. I wonder why that could be?
It's because your facts are wrong and you don't have as many fast food places.
There are 18,590 Mc Donalds alone in the US. That's more than the entire WORLD combined, by a lot! And we have an obesity problem, I wonder why that is...?
Now, what I'd really like you to do is have a go at addressing my serious points in this post and preceding ones instead of ignoring them and making kindergarden fat and race jokes.
Don't tell me what to do, chubby.
- Oni
Edited by onifre, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by Warthog, posted 02-02-2012 9:34 PM Warthog has replied

Replies to this message:
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onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 179 of 314 (650802)
02-03-2012 3:10 AM
Reply to: Message 176 by New Cat's Eye
02-02-2012 3:28 PM


Re: Parody Logic
I should mention that I do like your point that its silly for people to abuse the shit out of their bodies and then demand free healthcare.
That's all's I'm saying.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-02-2012 3:28 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
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Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


(4)
Message 180 of 314 (650810)
02-03-2012 7:56 AM
Reply to: Message 176 by New Cat's Eye
02-02-2012 3:28 PM


Re: Parody Logic
CS writes:
I should mention that I do like your point that its silly for people to abuse the shit out of their bodies and then demand free healthcare.
Firstly it’s not free. It’s a form of nationalised health insurance. And like ANY insurance scheme (private or otherwise) it consists of a large number of contributors individually paying into the scheme on the basis that they may one day require the scheme to provide for their needs.
Secondly - Those of us who advocate universal healthcare are not doing so on the basis of demanding the right to have society pick up the bill for our personal lifestyle choices. We are advocating universal healthcare because we believe it is part of a sane and civilised society.
Healthcare is free in the UK. But I cannot even remember the last time I saw a doctor for myself. As a male in the 30-45 age category I, stereotypically, need to have a limb hanging off or be on the verge of death before I’ll visit a doctor. It’s like stopping the car to ask for directions or something.
However I have interacted with the UK healthcare system a lot in recent years. Very elderly relatives slowly but inexorably reaching the end of their lives and requiring medical assistance so that they can do so with some dignity intact. Parents in their 60s who are still basically fit and healthy but who have started to require various medications for minor aches and ailments as the pace of age decline starts to become more pronounced. My two little kids who are constantly being checked and immunised so as to avoid future problems as well as being treated for the inevitable playground scrapes and the probably nothing serious but given his age we’d like to keep him in for observation illnesses. Furthermore missus Straggler partakes in these strange, mysterious and (as far as I can tell) predominantly female rituals called things like check-ups and scans. What exactly these entail is anyone’s guess but they are apparently a good thing and have something to do with a strange idea called prevention
Probably the single largest benefit I personally get from the free healthcare system in the UK is the peace of mind that those I care for are being well advised and cared for. Frankly this is priceless to me. And I have absolutely no problem with my taxes contributing to provide this insurance to all families across the nation such that health provision is made on the basis of need rather than individual ability to pay. That, after all, is what insurance is supposed to be about.
As an outsider the present US system seems to be unjustifiably expensive and barbarically non-inclusive.
Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-02-2012 3:28 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 184 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-03-2012 11:43 AM Straggler has replied

  
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