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Author Topic:   When does human life begin?
shadow71
Member (Idle past 2956 days)
Posts: 706
From: Joliet, il, USA
Joined: 08-31-2010


Message 311 of 327 (651415)
02-07-2012 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 302 by Rahvin
02-06-2012 3:40 PM


Re: So what was the point of this thread?
Rahvin writes:
Your belief is inconsistent, else you would be screaming about the moral imperative to find ways to save the 60% of pregnancies that fail prior to even being detected.
Ef every zygote is a human being with this "soul" thing you imagine might exist, then every human zygote carries equal moral weight to a fully grown human being.
If every zygote carries equal moral weight to a fully grown human being, then the same moral imperative to save the life of an adult (curing diseases, performing heart surgery, performing CPR, etc) applies to those zygotes who fail to implant on the uterine wall or otherwise fail to develop further.
If the same moral imperative to save life exists, then you should be advocating for new laws and medical technologies to help those poor human zygotes implant and develop properly, to the same degree that you advocate cancer research; more so, because the number of "children" who die because zygotes fail to implant in a given year would dwarf most other causes of death.
I already expressed my hope that science would do research in this area. I also note that the loss of zygotes you are discussing are natural not an intentional act by a person.
Rahvin writes:
If the same moral imperative exists, then just as a drunk driver is held morally accountable for anyone he kills while driving, so too would a mother be morally accountable for miscarrying due to alcohol or tobacco use.
I agree, women who abuse the human being in their womb should be warned about the dangers, but I don't see how that can be policed, but morally they should be aware of their actions.
Rahvin writes:
If the same moral imperative exists, then every woman who aborts a child and every doctor who performs an abortion is a murderer, and the rest of us are all accessories. You should think that everyone who supports a woman's right to choose is a supporter of baby murder.
I advocate the legal banning of abortion.
Rahvin writes:
And I certainly don't buy into the "soul" bullshit. There is no such thing as a soul. Nobody has one
I assume that conclusion is based upon rational proof, or is it just "your" belief? Are we now required to accept your beliefs as "the sine qua none" of our existence?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 302 by Rahvin, posted 02-06-2012 3:40 PM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 312 by Straggler, posted 02-07-2012 12:35 PM shadow71 has not replied
 Message 316 by Rahvin, posted 02-07-2012 1:00 PM shadow71 has replied

  
shadow71
Member (Idle past 2956 days)
Posts: 706
From: Joliet, il, USA
Joined: 08-31-2010


Message 313 of 327 (651421)
02-07-2012 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 303 by Perdition
02-06-2012 3:59 PM


Re: So what was the point of this thread?
Perdition writes:
A stem cell in your bone marrow will make only stem cells for your marrow.
Um, not really. For one thing, the genetic information in my stem cells are exactly the same as the genetic information in every other cell in my body.
Secondly, the stem cells in your bone marrow make blood cells and lymphocytes. They have also been used, occassionally, to grow other organs, like the liver and muscles
A human being is is composed of cells, proteins, RNA etc. that make up the characteritic human parts. Collections of human cells carrying on the activities of life, but do not establish the complex interellated cellular structures such as tissues, organs, ext. that exist in a whole human being.
That is the difference between a zygote and a collection of cells.
The zygote is organized to complete the full human structure.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 303 by Perdition, posted 02-06-2012 3:59 PM Perdition has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 315 by Perdition, posted 02-07-2012 12:54 PM shadow71 has not replied

  
shadow71
Member (Idle past 2956 days)
Posts: 706
From: Joliet, il, USA
Joined: 08-31-2010


Message 314 of 327 (651423)
02-07-2012 12:38 PM
Reply to: Message 304 by JonF
02-06-2012 4:00 PM


Re: So what was the point of this thread?
JonF writes:
And you have not responded to the criticisms of that paper.
The criticism of the paper has been basically that's her philosphy and it's not science. How do I respond to that?
If they would point where she is wrong in her science I would respond.
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 304 by JonF, posted 02-06-2012 4:00 PM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 317 by JonF, posted 02-07-2012 2:43 PM shadow71 has replied

  
shadow71
Member (Idle past 2956 days)
Posts: 706
From: Joliet, il, USA
Joined: 08-31-2010


Message 318 of 327 (651506)
02-07-2012 7:10 PM
Reply to: Message 317 by JonF
02-07-2012 2:43 PM


Re: So what was the point of this thread?
JonF writes:
Fact is, several people have pointed out exactly how her conclusions are not supported by her facts. I"m not going to bother to dig up the messages, because you obviously aren't interested in or capable of discussing trhe paper.
I have just read through all the post in this thread and there no post ascerting scientifically how her science was wrong. Just post saying her philosphy was wrong.
As jar would say, a bunch of "word salad".
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 317 by JonF, posted 02-07-2012 2:43 PM JonF has not replied

  
shadow71
Member (Idle past 2956 days)
Posts: 706
From: Joliet, il, USA
Joined: 08-31-2010


Message 319 of 327 (651508)
02-07-2012 7:19 PM
Reply to: Message 316 by Rahvin
02-07-2012 1:00 PM


Re: So what was the point of this thread?
Rahvin writes:
If personality resides in a nonphysical "soul," then brain damage and chemistry cannot possibly affect personality. Yet we know from consistent, repeated observation that brain damage and alterations in brain chemistry via psychiatric medication do affect personality. Antidepressants lessen or remove depression. Anti-anxiety medications reduce or remove anxiety. Mood stabilizers stop bipolar sifts between manic and depressive episodes. Anti-psychotics stop paranoid delusions and hallucinations. A blow to the head can alter a person's likes and dislikes and general personality. Electroshock therapy can cure severe depression. Alcohol, marijuana, LSD, and other substances can cause temporary extreme changes in personality.
Your problem is that you think you know where the soul resides. Well the soul is not physical, it is a gift from God.
So your silly ramblings above are some sort of speculation that the soul must have a physical effect on man. Where do you get this conclusion?
What facts do you have to support these silly thoughts?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 316 by Rahvin, posted 02-07-2012 1:00 PM Rahvin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 320 by jar, posted 02-07-2012 7:25 PM shadow71 has not replied

  
shadow71
Member (Idle past 2956 days)
Posts: 706
From: Joliet, il, USA
Joined: 08-31-2010


Message 327 of 327 (651600)
02-08-2012 12:35 PM


The OP asked a question as to whether there was a medical-scientific position as to when a human life begins.
The only scientific support for that position was a paper by a Prof. from the University of Utah School of Medicine, in the Neurobiology and Anatomy dept.
She states her scientific opinion is that life begins at Conception.
After reviewing the science I am convinced by that scientific-medical opinion.

  
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