Summations Only

I do have to give you credit for one thing, Chuckles. Anyone who believed any of those things would be a foolish atheist; or a foolish Christian, Muslim, Zoroastrian or Pastafarian. Of course, since you've never met or heard of anyone who did believe any of those things, this is nothing more than your latest silly little straw man.

Please provide his calculations.

Thanks a lot, pal!I was hoping my challenge to Pollux might be a learning opportunity for him, but you've queered that deal.

We're much more value conscious on this side of the pond; we say a dime a dozen.Either way, I think we've both got same change coming.

I'm always willing to credit someone who says this, at least at the beginning. This, now, is your opportunity to prove that you are indeed ready to learn.As others have remarked here, Hoyle's calculation says nothing about the real world, it's irrelevant. If if calculates anything accurately, and I'm not sure it does, at most it calculates the odds of those unnamed 2000 proteins coming together all at one time out of some unnamed set of constituent parts. Since nobody on the planet thinks that's what happened, his calculation couldn't be more meaningless.If you understand that point, as well as other points that others have raised here, you should acknowledge that and agree that the calculation is meaningless. If you don't understand it, you should ask more questions and we'll answer them for you. If you either understand the point but continue to press the relevance of the Hoyle calculation, or don't understand the point and continue to press the relevance of the Hoyle calculation, we'll know you're not really interested in learning.The ball's in your court.

I'm not your buddy, chum!You wanna lay odds on that?

The problem is that Buz lumps evolution and abiogenesis together because they are one and the same to him; an attack on baby Jeebus. He feels the need to defend against both at once because they both undermine his bibble fantasies. And, since he's incapable of understanding the basis for the difference in science, he simply assumes science lumps them both together the way he does.In essence, he's projecting his ignorance of both subjects onto science and concludes that science is as ill-informed as he is.

What Trixie said.I took "lief/" to be a typo where he meant to say "life?"

This is the first paragraph of this post. You might notice that those were two separate paragraphs in my previous post. The conventional formatting here is to separate paragraphs by a line space. This is the end of the first paragraph of this post.This is the second paragraph of this post. In the first paragraph of my previous post, I was indicating my reply to you was the same as Trixie's. In case that is not clear enough for you, here is what she said: This is the end of the second paragraph of this post.This is the third paragraph of this post. In the second paragraph of my previous post, I was giving you my understanding of what Dwise meant by "lief/". Since those two points were in separate paragraphs, I assumed that any minimally literate person would understand that I was expressing two separate ideas. Hopefully I am making the point clearly enough in this post for even you to understand it. This is the end of the third paragraph of this post.

Well, I'll give it a go (but in all probability just wasting bandwidth, at least as far as there being any chance that this will make Buz understand). The current consensus among scientists is that yes, in fact life did arise from non-life by a natural process of chemical reactions that eventually resulted in self-replicating molecules. However, the exact sequence of this process is currently unknown and, given the length of time that has passed and the unlikelihood of any of that process leaving behind evidence that we can find today, we will probably never know exactly how it happened.However, the process by which life arose is completely irrelevant to the ToE. The ToE describes how life evolved on this planet after it began. If we were to find conclusive evidence that life was seeded on this planet by an alien civilization, that would not change the ToE in any meaningful respect. If we were to find evidence that life traveled here from another planet by some sort of panspermia event, that would not change the ToE in any meaningful respect.The existence of life on this planet is a prerequisite to evolution. How that life began is irrelevant to the ToE.

Seems to me that if we're going to include that as a possibility, we'd need to add the possibility that RAmen.But that, of course, would have considerable implications for the ToE, as would, I submit, any other explanation involving unevidenced supernatural intervention.Plus, I kinda get a kick out of outraging the "righteous." If there's anyone who needs to have their cage shaken on a regular basis, it's them.

Whine to Admin about it. I understand he can be a pissy little prig about that sort of thing.

Now please explain, in detail, how the Theory of Evolution will change if it turns out that the current thoughts about the primordial soup are wrong, and life was seeded by an alien civilization billions of years ago, or arrived in a panspermic process on the backs of asteroids.

Now please explain, in detail, how the Theory of Evolution will change if it turns out that the current thoughts about the primordial soup are wrong, and life was seeded by an alien civilization billions of years ago, or arrived in a panspermic process on the backs of asteroids.

Look at it this way. The acquisition of lead is a necessary precursor to making a bullet. But where the lead comes from doesn't make any difference in doing a ballistics analysis to determine what gun fired the bullet.Life had to appear before evolution, since the ToE describes a process that only occurs in populations of organisms. However, there is no requirement that life begin in one particular way or another. The ToE would not change in any meaningful way depending on how life actually began. As such, no particular theory of the beginning of life is a prerequisite to the ToE.