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Author Topic:   God the father
Panda
Member (Idle past 3966 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 55 of 117 (652223)
02-13-2012 7:01 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by purpledawn
02-13-2012 6:27 AM


Re: No Suffering or Eternal Torture
PD writes:
A parent can only do so much to help their child survive or succeed in life.
Rahvin writes:
Not when the parent is supposed to be omnipotent.
PD writes:
Why does that make a difference?
An omnipotent parent would be able to do whatever is needed to ensure their child survives and succeeds in life.
An omnipotent parent is not limited to "only do[ing] so much".
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by purpledawn, posted 02-13-2012 6:27 AM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by purpledawn, posted 02-13-2012 8:24 AM Panda has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3966 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 60 of 117 (652279)
02-13-2012 8:36 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by purpledawn
02-13-2012 8:24 AM


Re: No Suffering or Eternal Torture
PD writes:
As I said in Message 47: Ultimately the child has to want to.
No it doesn't.
A child will want to play with fire.
As a human parent, you try (and probably fail) to prevent your child from playing with fire.
As an omnipotent parent, you successfully prevent a child from playing with fire.
Their 'wants' are irrelevant.
It is a parent's duty/responsibility to ensure the well-being of their children.
Omnipotent parents wouldn't find that a difficult task.
An omnipotent parent would ensure that their children were restored to life.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by purpledawn, posted 02-13-2012 8:24 AM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by purpledawn, posted 02-13-2012 10:06 AM Panda has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3966 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 64 of 117 (652309)
02-13-2012 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by purpledawn
02-13-2012 10:06 AM


Re: No Suffering or Eternal Torture
PD writes:
You still haven't explained why. Why does omnipotence make a difference? This is the second time I've asked.
Do you really not know the difference between a human parent and an omnipotent parent?
Do you really not see a difference between them?
Do you really not see how 'being omnipotent' would be different from 'not being omnipotent'?
PD writes:
I didn't say their "wants", I said they have to want to. IOW, people have to want to change their behavior.
Your sentence contradicts itself.
You say you aren't talking about their 'wants' and then you start talking about what they have to want.
PD writes:
Why would an omnipotent parent ensure that all their children were restored to life?
Answer:
Panda writes:
It is a parent's duty/responsibility to ensure the well-being of their children.
PD writes:
You're moving away from the original point I was addressing in Message 47.
A human parent can only do so much to help their child survive or succeed in life.
An omnipotent parent can do all that is needed for their child to survive and succeed in life.
Perhaps it would help if you could give an example of something that an omnipotent parent would not be able to do...
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by purpledawn, posted 02-13-2012 10:06 AM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by purpledawn, posted 02-13-2012 11:42 AM Panda has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3966 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 67 of 117 (652322)
02-13-2012 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by purpledawn
02-13-2012 11:42 AM


Re: Omnipotent Parent
PD writes:
That doesn't answer the question.
Saying that doesn't mean that they can or explain what an omnipotent parent would do that a human parent wouldn't.
You're the one that says there's a difference. What is the difference? This is my third request.
I have already addressed these questions:
PD writes:
A human parent can only do so much to help their child survive or succeed in life.
An omnipotent parent can do all that is needed for their child to survive and succeed in life.
So - in summary:
PD writes:
Why does omnipotence make a difference?
A human parent can only do so much to help their child survive or succeed in life.
But an omnipotent parent can do all that is needed for their child to survive and succeed in life.
PD writes:
explain what an omnipotent parent would do that a human parent wouldn't.
A human parent could only do so much to help their child survive or succeed in life.
Whereas an omnipotent parent would do all that is needed for their child to survive and succeed in life.
PD writes:
What is the difference?
A human parent can only do so much to help their child survive or succeed in life.
In contrast. an omnipotent parent can do all that is needed for their child to survive and succeed in life.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
Edited by Panda, : Hopefully increased the clarity of the obvious.

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by purpledawn, posted 02-13-2012 11:42 AM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by purpledawn, posted 02-13-2012 12:38 PM Panda has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3966 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(2)
Message 75 of 117 (652342)
02-13-2012 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by purpledawn
02-13-2012 12:38 PM


Re: Omnipotent Parent
PD writes:
Pantokrator deals more with ruling authority, supreme authority.
Ah - I see you were knowingly using an uncommon definition of the word 'omnipotent'.
Perhaps if you had explained that you weren't using the normal meaning of the word we could have got to this point sooner.
Why were you being deceitful?

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by purpledawn, posted 02-13-2012 12:38 PM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by purpledawn, posted 02-13-2012 2:12 PM Panda has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3966 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 83 of 117 (652434)
02-13-2012 5:46 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by purpledawn
02-13-2012 2:12 PM


Re: Omnipotent Parent
PD writes:
Excuse me, but I'm not the one who brought up omnipotence. Rahvin did.
Then you should have used his definition.
But instead you decided to dishonestly attempt a juvenile 'gotcha' where you use a definition completely different to everyone else.
But you knew this - which is why I accused you of deceit.
PD writes:
I asked you three times to explain the difference and you provided no support or meanings.
Since you knew you were using an 'alternative' definition, the onus was on you to give the meaning.
But you were too busy giggling at your stupid word-game to debate honestly.
PD writes:
How dare you insinuate that I'm being deceitful because you didn't read carefully. You had your chance to explain and didn't.
I did not insinuate anything.
I stated it very clearly.
I even explained how you were being deceitful.
PD writes:
Well, Pot, perhaps if you had explained what definition you were using we could have made some headway.
I cannot be certain of what you mean. Since you insist on using obscure definitions of words - but intentionally keep that from us - I have no confidence that you are using normal parlance.
You will need to explain every single word as you cannot be trusted not to switch meanings half way through the discussion.
PD writes:
Since it pertains to God, I look to see how it is used in the Bible when referring to God.
And when it comes to discussions you value stupid semantic tricks over honesty or accuracy.
So - why were you being deceitful? This is the second time I have asked.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by purpledawn, posted 02-13-2012 2:12 PM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by purpledawn, posted 02-18-2012 12:11 PM Panda has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3966 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(1)
(1)
Message 104 of 117 (653139)
02-18-2012 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by purpledawn
02-18-2012 12:11 PM


Re: Omnipotent Parent
PD writes:
You were not deceived.
There was no definition given in Message 48 and the definition in Message 77 doesn't deal with what an omnipotent parent would do.
You were not lead down a garden path concerning the meaning of omnipotent and there was no gotcha.
Maybe you should read the 2 similar accusations that Theodoric and Rahvin made.
PD writes:
As for omnipotent, I didn't make a claim to it's meaning, so there was nothing to switch from. I just hadn't given my opinion on the issue yet.
And this would be a confession of disingenuous debating.
There is no point discussing anything with you because you don't decide the meaning of words until you need to win the argument and then you find an obscure meaning so that your previous claims don't look wrong.

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by purpledawn, posted 02-18-2012 12:11 PM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by Jon, posted 02-18-2012 3:12 PM Panda has replied
 Message 106 by purpledawn, posted 02-18-2012 3:34 PM Panda has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3966 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(1)
Message 107 of 117 (653149)
02-18-2012 5:02 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by Jon
02-18-2012 3:12 PM


Re: Omnipotent Parent
Jon writes:
Oh stop. Any all-powerful being has the power to control, at the very least, its own actions.
And I am sure that you think that is relevant to something.
Jon writes:
And there is no logic in construing omnipotence as also being control over the actions of others.
And there is no logic at all in there being a god - go figure.
Jon writes:
Absolutely no Christian whatsoever takes it to mean that.
I am going to call 'Bullshit' on your clearly false assertion.
Jon writes:
Besides, few Christians even take to the notion of an superbly omnipotent God; the idea seems, ironically, more popular with Atheists.
And since googling the phrase "superbly omnipotent God" returns no results, it would actually seem to only be popular with you.
Jon writes:
This thread is about the Christian God, in particular the characterizing of him as a father with all the powers and restrictions such a role entails.
Oh don't be stupid. There are no "powers and restrictions" applicable to the role of being a father.
Any powers and restrictions are due to the 'species' of the father.
Your laughable implication that a 'deity' father has the same powers and restrictions as a 'human' father is blatantly false.

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Jon, posted 02-18-2012 3:12 PM Jon has not replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3966 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(1)
Message 108 of 117 (653150)
02-18-2012 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by purpledawn
02-18-2012 3:34 PM


Re: Omnipotent Parent
PD writes:
When I make my argument I present the meaning of words or the basis for my opinion. It's difficult to make the point before I express my opinion or have an argument to make.
Deny your culpability all you want but...
Panda writes:
Maybe you should read the 2 similar accusations that Theodoric and Rahvin made.
___
PD writes:
Actually I've presented my opinion of omnipotent long before now. Message 277
What?!? You expect me to read your entire 8 years of posting history to know what you mean? Hahahaha!
No.

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by purpledawn, posted 02-18-2012 3:34 PM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by purpledawn, posted 02-18-2012 6:56 PM Panda has not replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3966 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(1)
Message 111 of 117 (653177)
02-18-2012 8:07 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by AdminPhat
02-18-2012 6:29 PM


Re: Warning For Panda
AdminPhat writes:
The goal here is understanding through discussion. Evidence is not required, nor is winning the argument the goal.
I have not asked for evidence and the only time I mentioned 'winning the argument' is when I was criticising PD 'gotcha' technique.
AdminPhat writes:
Please refrain from trying to frame the argument for the mere sake of winning it
It was PurpleDawn who was framing the argument for the mere sake of winning.
AdminPhat writes:
if you have any faith and belief in support of it, please make your point. If you are simply against the concept of faith and belief, you have no purpose participating.
This makes little sense to me - but whatever.
Since you are basically telling me to leave, I will.
Cya.

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by AdminPhat, posted 02-18-2012 6:29 PM AdminPhat has seen this message but not replied

  
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