Of Snarks and Dogpiles

Tangle writes:It's something I'm occasionally guilty of - it's good fun afterall.

But, for a bit of a change, I joined a YEC forum last weekend and tried to have a civilised debate. I was immediately dogpiled in 4 forums (my naivety, I will stick to a comment in one only next time.) I was fresh meat, an atheist thrown to the Christians.

The next two days were rather hectic as I tried to give direct answers to increasingly aggressive questions. I had to fend off demands for evidence for every single, non-controversial (in the world of normal) assertion. They were almost uniformly anal about logical fallacies, calling them at every opportunity in pompous ways and wielding them like clever weapons.

A good number of them had been practicising attack questions for some years and weren't totally ignorant of their enemy.

Tangle writes:It appeared I had been banned without warning.

It was a fairly unpleasant experience and my reason for bringing it up is that we seem to do something similar here quite often. I can now see from the other side of it that there's actually absolutely no chance of making any progress at all in that kind of feeding frenzy.

There must be room for statements of opinion and comment and genuine questioning without the necessity to back every assertion with multiple references and there's no making progress in a discussion where both sides are not really debating honestly, just throwing hand grenades around and showing off to their own side.

One big difference between here and there, is that this forum has some excellent moderation which is applied reasonably and objectively, some good tools and rules for moderators to use, a lot of tolerance and different kinds of fora using specific rules of evidence. This keeps control of most debates, doesn't let them get out of hand and moderators do not arbtrarily ban people.

Catholic Scientist writes:That being said, I've been banned from multiple Christian forums for waaay less than the least of what goes on around here. Simply not towing the line can get you banned.

Artemis writes:If you want some real fun go to evcforum.net, and don't be liberal or a scientist, you will get dogpiled, and ridiculed almost immediately

Here is where the difference begins. Liberals don't ban that much, they actually have the best message boards on the internet, they will call you names, and make fun of you, but you wont get banned.

Snark has always been a weapon for those giving voice to unpopular speech. Voltaire, George Carlin, and Bill Hicks (nod to onifre) come to mind.

I've been enjoying the unpopular speech coming from the right lately, too. As a comic. Most recent, Rush and his "slut" comment. The reactions, while I know they're sincere, are hilarious. People really get pissed. They want apologies and "action" to be taken. All for words! On someone's show who has that show because he says those things. The one's that hate him give him the power he has. It's beautiful. And I admire it. He's a great entertainer.

But, when a funny conservative gets up there and says harsh stuff about Obama or gay marriage or a lesbian judge, the moans and the "Did he just say that?" start. They're shocked. And people talk about it. And it's very entertaining to me. There's a new shift coming.

The right is winning the shock value in the press and media. The left used to be the edgy side, with Hicks and Carlin. But now the "shock" is coming from the right, even if mocked by the left by Stewart or Colbert.

What I don't get is how it is supposed to be comedic or anything approaching social commentary.

It's just someone being an asshole for asshole's sake. But again, is this because I disagree with his position?

It's even better when people don't get the joke

How can anyone say the shit she does and seriously believe it? Does Ann laugh herself to sleep thinking of all the right-wingers that take her seriously?

Let's just hope that they are as talented as the comedians that have come before them.

Perhaps since the left has become the establishment to be anti-establishment and counter one now has to attack from the right?

Anyway, I found your comments on humor interesting.

Tangle writes:Percy has issued a warning to all participants in the macroevolution thread for snide remarks. It's something I'm occasionally guilty of - it's good fun afterall.
But, for a bit of a change, I joined a YEC forum last weekend and tried to have a civilised debate. I was immediately dogpiled in 4 forums (my naivety, I will stick to a comment in one only next time.) I was fresh meat, an atheist thrown to the Christians.The next two days were rather hectic as I tried to give direct answers to increasingly aggressive questions. I had to fend off demands for evidence for every single, non-controversial (in the world of normal) assertion. They were almost uniformly anal about logical fallacies, calling them at every opportunity in pompous ways and wielding them like clever weapons.A good number of them had been practicising attack questions for some years and weren't totally ignorant of their enemy. Things got more interesting when 3 moderators joined the discussions - as participants, not moderators.Half way through a reply I suddenly found that I could no longer use the site. It appeared I had been banned without warning.It was a fairly unpleasant experience and my reason for bringing it up is that we seem to do something similar here quite often. I can now see from the other side of it that there's actually absolutely no chance of making any progress at all in that kind of feeding frenzy.There must be room for statements of opinion and comment and genuine questioning without the necessity to back every assertion with multiple references and there's no making progress in a discussion where both sides are not really debating honestly, just throwing hand grenades around and showing off to their own side.One big difference between here and there, is that this forum has some excellent moderation which is applied reasonably and objectively, some good tools and rules for moderators to use, a lot of tolerance and different kinds of fora using specific rules of evidence. This keeps control of most debates, doesn't let them get out of hand and moderators do not arbtrarily ban people.Anyhoo, just thought I'd share the experience.

Coyote writes:Perhaps since the left has become the establishment...