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Author Topic:   Examples of new information
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2492 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


(1)
Message 16 of 31 (656342)
03-17-2012 7:31 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by dan4reason
03-16-2012 12:30 PM


I would like some examples of how the process of natural selection and mutations created new information. This must not occur by playing around with gene switching.
As I read your question, you seem to be asking for the development of a new gene, but one which does not in turn require the loss of another gene.
So, using a hypothetical example.
A creature has Gene A, Gene B, Gene C. They each do different things. B codes for a protein which breaks down lactose, let's say.
A mutation occurs which causes B to change.
The creature now has Gene A, Gene D, Gene C. New Gene D codes for a protein which strengthens hair or whatever.
Even though Gene D is new and novel, you would not consider it "new information" since the net result is still 3 genes.
Am I close?
In that case, let's look at another example:
Gene A, Gene B, Gene C again.
This time there is a mutation which causes gene duplication.
So, the new organism has Gene A, Gene B, Gene B, Gene C.
The "new" Gene B is exactly the same as the old Gene B. It's completely redundant.
A couple of generations later, a 2nd mutation occurs resulting in the switch from Gene B to Gene D.
So, now the organism is Gene A, Gene B, Gene D, Gene C.
The new organism can still process lactose (it has gene B) but also has stronger hair (it has gene D).
Would that scenario be considered "new information" since the net gain to the organism is an additional gene with a new property while not losing the existing gene with the original property.
If not, why not?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by dan4reason, posted 03-16-2012 12:30 PM dan4reason has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-17-2012 11:22 PM Nuggin has replied

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2492 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 18 of 31 (656370)
03-18-2012 1:44 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Dr Adequate
03-17-2012 11:22 PM


Pointless question then...
What he means by gene switching is, well, gene switching. That is, he very reasonably wants assurance that the novel characteristics of the organism are not caused by the switching on and off of pre-existing genes as a pre-programmed response to a novel environment. Your example is therefore unnecessarily complicated (besides being hypothetical).
Well, then that's useless question.
Just look at the genome. Is the gene there in an earlier generation? No? Okay, it's there now. Done.
E. Coli/Citrate demonstrates this with multiple mutations.
Go ahead and close the thread.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-17-2012 11:22 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-18-2012 1:57 AM Nuggin has not replied

  
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