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Author Topic:   The Three Kinds of Creationists
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 271 of 432 (657817)
03-30-2012 10:56 PM
Reply to: Message 264 by Taq
03-30-2012 2:46 PM


Re: Supernatural 101
This all sounds perfectly reasonable Taq.

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 264 by Taq, posted 03-30-2012 2:46 PM Taq has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 272 of 432 (657820)
03-31-2012 12:09 AM
Reply to: Message 220 by 1.61803
03-30-2012 10:26 AM


Re: Supernatural 101
1.61803 writes:
There is another theory that reality itself is nothing more than a 2D holograph
If existence itself is illusory then perhaps there is no such thing as supernatural. Perhaps its just a word we use when we do not know the answer.
quote:
Aspect and his team discovered that under certain circumstances subatomic particles such as electrons are able to instantaneously communicate with each other regardless of the distance separating them. It doesn't matter whether they are 10 feet or 10 billion miles apart.
Somehow each particle always seems to know what the other is doing.
This is a lot how the supernatural functions. Jehovah, supreme god of the Universe, is like a giant computer which has all of the data existing in the Universe at any given time and instantly as changes occur.
For example, according to the Biblical record, he knows all thoughts, words, and motives of every human at any given time. He knows when a sparrow falls, how many hairs on every human at any given time. He can instantly communicate with humans. humans can instantly communicate with him. I know.
I pray/talk to him daily and receive extremely remarkable answers to them. According to Jesus his son, our lord/master and savour, the only way we are worthy of communicating to Jehovah says if we draw near to him he draws near to us, etc.
He communicates back to humans via his holy spirit, the one and same spirit of Jesus, Jehovah and all spiritually born, i.e born from above humans.
All communication between Jehovah and humans is instantaneous and of course, the Bible states in several verses that Jehovah exists within our heavens, i.e. the cosmos of our Universe.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
Someone wisely said something ;ike, "Before fooling with a fool, make sure the fool is a fool."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by 1.61803, posted 03-30-2012 10:26 AM 1.61803 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 273 by 1.61803, posted 04-03-2012 10:51 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 274 by New Cat's Eye, posted 04-03-2012 11:06 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


(1)
Message 273 of 432 (658193)
04-03-2012 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 272 by Buzsaw
03-31-2012 12:09 AM


Re: Supernatural 101
Hello Buzsaw,
I respect your beliefs.
I just will say that science is another path to obtaining knowledge. It happens to be a very good way for humanity to understand, as best we can, our universe.

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 272 by Buzsaw, posted 03-31-2012 12:09 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 274 of 432 (658195)
04-03-2012 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 272 by Buzsaw
03-31-2012 12:09 AM


If god knows everything then what's the point of praying for stuff?
"Hey God, how's it going?... yeah, I'm good - oh yeah, you already knew that... anyways, I was wonder if you could -oh yeah, you already knew about that too... Well, about my grandma, she has this - shit, that's right, you must be aware of that 'cause you already know everthing... well... ... uhhhh... ... yeah, I guess that's about that then. Cheers."

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 277 by Taq, posted 04-03-2012 11:20 AM New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied
 Message 281 by bridgebuilder, posted 04-03-2012 11:53 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 275 of 432 (658196)
04-03-2012 11:17 AM
Reply to: Message 268 by jar
03-30-2012 3:05 PM


Re: Supernatural 101
Yes, my belief is simply my belief and should never interfere or influence science or statements of testable knowledge.
How am I opening the door to a very problematic worldview?
How can you have GOD producing effects in the natural world and not have it impinge on science or testable knowledge?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by jar, posted 03-30-2012 3:05 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 276 by jar, posted 04-03-2012 11:20 AM Taq has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 276 of 432 (658198)
04-03-2012 11:20 AM
Reply to: Message 275 by Taq
04-03-2012 11:17 AM


Re: Supernatural 101
Well, as I have said repeatedly, I can see no way that science could ever test the supernatural.
That is only a limitation of science, one area where it's not useful.
If that is understood, how is that a problematic worldview?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 275 by Taq, posted 04-03-2012 11:17 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 278 by Taq, posted 04-03-2012 11:25 AM jar has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 277 of 432 (658199)
04-03-2012 11:20 AM
Reply to: Message 274 by New Cat's Eye
04-03-2012 11:06 AM


If god knows everything then what's the point of praying for stuff?
I think John Calvin would agree with you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 274 by New Cat's Eye, posted 04-03-2012 11:06 AM New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 278 of 432 (658201)
04-03-2012 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 276 by jar
04-03-2012 11:20 AM


Re: Supernatural 101
Well, as I have said repeatedly, I can see no way that science could ever test the supernatural.
That is only a limitation of science, one area where it's not useful.
If that is understood, how is that a problematic worldview?
Science is useful in determing effects on the natural world. You claim that GOD has effects on the natural world. It would seem that the only limitation here is the limitations you put on GOD. I see no reason why GOD, being omnipotent, could not produce detectable effects in the natural world. You seem to be protecting your belief in GOD from science, not the other way around.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 276 by jar, posted 04-03-2012 11:20 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 279 by jar, posted 04-03-2012 11:41 AM Taq has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 279 of 432 (658209)
04-03-2012 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 278 by Taq
04-03-2012 11:25 AM


Re: Supernatural 101
And you still haven't said anything that I see as related in any way to a problematic worldview.
I have never said that the effects would not be detectable, only that I see no way that science can test, observe, explain or understand the supernatural.
In your example you mentioned GOD placing false fingerprints at a crime scene and I said that I believe that would be possible.
BUT, all we can go by is what science can show us and that is that the fingerprints were found at the crime scene.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by Taq, posted 04-03-2012 11:25 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 280 by Perdition, posted 04-03-2012 11:44 AM jar has replied
 Message 288 by Taq, posted 04-03-2012 12:07 PM jar has replied

  
Perdition
Member (Idle past 3238 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 280 of 432 (658210)
04-03-2012 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 279 by jar
04-03-2012 11:41 AM


Re: Supernatural 101
And you still haven't said anything that I see as related in any way to a problematic worldview.
You don't find it problematic to have to doubt any evidence found?
In your example you mentioned GOD placing false fingerprints at a crime scene and I said that I believe that would be possible.
So, presumably, we find the person whose fingerprints match those found, but if god planted them, this person may not actually be guilty. You don't find that problematic?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 279 by jar, posted 04-03-2012 11:41 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 282 by 1.61803, posted 04-03-2012 11:56 AM Perdition has not replied
 Message 284 by jar, posted 04-03-2012 11:57 AM Perdition has replied

  
bridgebuilder
Member (Idle past 4371 days)
Posts: 47
Joined: 03-26-2012


Message 281 of 432 (658213)
04-03-2012 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 274 by New Cat's Eye
04-03-2012 11:06 AM


A possible point for prayer
Catholic Scientist writes:
If god knows everything then what's the point of praying for stuff?
"Hey God, how's it going?... yeah, I'm good - oh yeah, you already knew that... anyways, I was wonder if you could -oh yeah, you already knew about that too... Well, about my grandma, she has this - shit, that's right, you must be aware of that 'cause you already know everthing... well... ... uhhhh... ... yeah, I guess that's about that then. Cheers."
I don't know but perhaps God won't constantly tamper with the free will of an individual or bestow stuff on him/her unless the individual asks for intervention.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 274 by New Cat's Eye, posted 04-03-2012 11:06 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 283 by New Cat's Eye, posted 04-03-2012 11:57 AM bridgebuilder has replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 282 of 432 (658215)
04-03-2012 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 280 by Perdition
04-03-2012 11:44 AM


Re: Supernatural 101
So, presumably, we find the person whose fingerprints match those found, but if god planted them, this person may not actually be guilty. You don't find that problematic?
Mr. George Burns finger prints found at crime scene? That would be a problem.

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 280 by Perdition, posted 04-03-2012 11:44 AM Perdition has not replied

Replies to this message:
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 283 of 432 (658216)
04-03-2012 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 281 by bridgebuilder
04-03-2012 11:53 AM


Re: A possible point for prayer
I don't know but perhaps God won't constantly tamper with the free will of an individual or bestow stuff on him/her unless the individual asks for intervention.
Perhaps. Isn't that kinda childish, though? Is like when I make my dog sit while I'm dangling the treat in front of her...
And if god knows everything, then he already knew that I wasn't going to ask for it before I didn't

This message is a reply to:
 Message 281 by bridgebuilder, posted 04-03-2012 11:53 AM bridgebuilder has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 387 by bridgebuilder, posted 04-07-2012 2:38 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 284 of 432 (658217)
04-03-2012 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 280 by Perdition
04-03-2012 11:44 AM


Re: Supernatural 101
I don't see any reason to doubt any evidence found.
And correct, I do not find that problematic because we can only work with the knowledge available.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 280 by Perdition, posted 04-03-2012 11:44 AM Perdition has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 286 by Perdition, posted 04-03-2012 12:03 PM jar has replied
 Message 300 by Straggler, posted 04-03-2012 1:16 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 285 of 432 (658218)
04-03-2012 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 282 by 1.61803
04-03-2012 11:56 AM


Re: Supernatural 101
Not really. I would be unexplainable perhaps but not a problem.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 282 by 1.61803, posted 04-03-2012 11:56 AM 1.61803 has not replied

  
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