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Author Topic:   The Three Kinds of Creationists
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 331 of 432 (658340)
04-04-2012 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 329 by Percy
04-04-2012 8:16 AM


Re: Convincing Others
Percy writes:
The measure of one's ideas isn't how stubbornly one holds them, but how many they convince.
LoL. How many of you do you think I, being a relative loner here, could ever convince of anything, given the wide gap in our thinking and ideologies?
Then too, how many creationists do you think you could convince of things related to your mind-set if you were a loner on an evangelical Christian debate board?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 329 by Percy, posted 04-04-2012 8:16 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 333 by Pressie, posted 04-04-2012 10:31 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 343 by Percy, posted 04-04-2012 1:29 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 344 by PaulK, posted 04-04-2012 1:30 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 332 of 432 (658343)
04-04-2012 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 327 by Straggler
04-04-2012 3:28 AM


Re: Supernatural 101
I doubt that you can find where I suggested that you should consider God?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 327 by Straggler, posted 04-04-2012 3:28 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 337 by Straggler, posted 04-04-2012 12:22 PM jar has replied

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 333 of 432 (658348)
04-04-2012 10:31 AM
Reply to: Message 331 by Buzsaw
04-04-2012 9:42 AM


Re: Convincing Others
Buzsaw writes:
Then too, how many creationists do you think you could convince of things related to your mind-set if you were a loner on an evangelical Christian debate board?
I was a loner on evolutionfairytale forum. I was banned the first time I asked for verifiable evidence. Apparantly, asking for verifiable evidence for something is a sin on fundamentalist websites.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 331 by Buzsaw, posted 04-04-2012 9:42 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 334 of 432 (658351)
04-04-2012 11:07 AM
Reply to: Message 314 by Perdition
04-03-2012 4:27 PM


The belief in the posibility wasn't brought forward as a serious proposal waiting to be ruled out, it was just an acknowledgement.
I'm still not understanding how this can be considered belief.
I don't think we mean the same things be "belief". I looked up "believe" in the dictionary and on one end it has "to have confidence in the truth, the existence, or the reliability of something" and on the other it has "to suppose or assume".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 314 by Perdition, posted 04-03-2012 4:27 PM Perdition has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 348 by Perdition, posted 04-04-2012 3:05 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 335 of 432 (658355)
04-04-2012 11:20 AM
Reply to: Message 326 by jar
04-03-2012 6:17 PM


Re: Supernatural 101
The actions cannot be evidenced or the entity performing the actions but the results can be evidenced.
According to what you said earlier, one should not consider entities that can not be evidenced. Here you are saying that you do.
However in the example under discussion, being on a jury in a trial, we are charged to put aside personal beliefs and to make a decision based solely on the evidence presented.
I don't mean to single you out, but it is your personal beliefs that I am trying to discuss with you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 326 by jar, posted 04-03-2012 6:17 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 336 by jar, posted 04-04-2012 11:35 AM Taq has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 336 of 432 (658357)
04-04-2012 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 335 by Taq
04-04-2012 11:20 AM


Re: Supernatural 101
Again, maybe you should stop trying to tell me what I say or believe, or actually get it right and in context.
Read what you actually quoted.
jar writes:
However in the example under discussion, being on a jury in a trial, we are charged to put aside personal beliefs and to make a decision based solely on the evidence presented.
My personal beliefs are my personal beliefs, nothing more.
Again, read what I wrote.
jar writes:
The actions cannot be evidenced or the entity performing the actions but the results can be evidenced.
If you are having trouble reading that I will try different words.
If God planted the finger prints we can see the result, the finger prints are there. But we have no way to observe, test, inspect the actual act itself, the act of God planting the finger print.
And I am still clueless what it is that you see problematic about my worldview.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 335 by Taq, posted 04-04-2012 11:20 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 339 by Taq, posted 04-04-2012 12:53 PM jar has replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 337 of 432 (658367)
04-04-2012 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 332 by jar
04-04-2012 10:09 AM


Re: Supernatural 101
On the contrary - You have made it quite clear that you hold some impossible-to-evidence things in disdain. Things like the notion that all evidence has been falsely planted.
It is the consideration that you give to other equally impossible-to-evidence things that I find amusing.
Why you think your own impossible-to-evidence notions are superior to those you show disdain for remains a mystery.
jar writes:
If it is impossible to get the evidence why should it EVER be considered?
You tell me. Why are some impossible-to-evidence things worthy of consideration and others not?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 332 by jar, posted 04-04-2012 10:09 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 338 by jar, posted 04-04-2012 12:32 PM Straggler has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 338 of 432 (658371)
04-04-2012 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 337 by Straggler
04-04-2012 12:22 PM


Re: Supernatural 101
I imagine that you can show a post where I have said that any of my beliefs are superior to anything or where I have ever said that you should consider any impossible to evidence things.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 337 by Straggler, posted 04-04-2012 12:22 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 351 by Straggler, posted 04-04-2012 3:15 PM jar has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 339 of 432 (658372)
04-04-2012 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 336 by jar
04-04-2012 11:35 AM


Re: Supernatural 101
Again, maybe you should stop trying to tell me what I say or believe, or actually get it right and in context.
In Message 315 you stated:
"If it is impossible to get the evidence why should it EVER be considered?"
This seemed to be a general statement, but perhaps I am missing some important context. From what I have read, the worldview you are describing is a very conflicted one. On one hand you advocate the view that we should not consider things for which there is no evidence. At the same time, you are professing a personal belief in things that can not be evidenced. I understand that you are NOT prescribing the way in which we SHOULD think. I am merely discussing the way in which you DO think.
Am I getting this right? Am I missing something?
If God planted the finger prints we can see the result, the finger prints are there. But we have no way to observe, test, inspect the actual act itself, the act of God planting the finger print.
This example keeps getting hung up on the letter of the law so let's move back to one of your earlier examples. If I am reading it correctly, you believe that God inspires people to have certain thoughts, such as not to step in front of a bus or a sudden inspiration to run a specific clinical test. You also seem to indicate that we have no way of evidencing this inspiration. So why do you even consider that this inspiration even occurs since you have no evidence for it, or are you saying that you do believe in things for which there is no evidence?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 336 by jar, posted 04-04-2012 11:35 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 340 by jar, posted 04-04-2012 12:58 PM Taq has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 340 of 432 (658373)
04-04-2012 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 339 by Taq
04-04-2012 12:53 PM


Re: Supernatural 101
Well of course I believe things where there is no evidence that could be produced for you or anyone else to examine.
That does not man that I do not have sufficient evidence to support my personal beliefs, but it is personal evidence. Might I be wrong or misinterpreting that evidence? Of course.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 339 by Taq, posted 04-04-2012 12:53 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 341 by Taq, posted 04-04-2012 1:03 PM jar has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 341 of 432 (658374)
04-04-2012 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 340 by jar
04-04-2012 12:58 PM


Re: Supernatural 101
That does not man that I do not have sufficient evidence to support my personal beliefs, but it is personal evidence. Might I be wrong or misinterpreting that evidence? Of course.
So it is possible to evidence the supernatural, it just happens to be subjective evidence. Is this correct?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 340 by jar, posted 04-04-2012 12:58 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 342 by jar, posted 04-04-2012 1:18 PM Taq has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 342 of 432 (658375)
04-04-2012 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 341 by Taq
04-04-2012 1:03 PM


Re: Supernatural 101
I honestly don't know. It is possible for me to believe that I have evidence, even if that might be wrong. But evidence is totally irrelevant when it comes to the supernatural.
That is the basis of faith.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 341 by Taq, posted 04-04-2012 1:03 PM Taq has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(4)
Message 343 of 432 (658376)
04-04-2012 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 331 by Buzsaw
04-04-2012 9:42 AM


Re: Convincing Others
Hi Buz,
What you originally said was this:
Buzsaw writes:
Designation: The Free Thinking Literalist Biblical Evidence Producing Butt Kicking Buzsaw OEC Who Gives Science Doctorates Educated Into Illogical Abstract Theories A Run For The Money In Threads.
And you've been arguing this point ever since. PaulK is wondering how you could believe this given all your errors, but there's little to be gained by raising this point unless it's for the benefit of the larger audience, because you're no more likely to recognize your errors now than you were when you first made them.
That's why I commented that the measure of one's ideas isn't how stubbornly one holds them, but how many they convince. I think we're all kind of dumbfounded at how successful you think you've been here given that you've convinced no one, including creationists.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 331 by Buzsaw, posted 04-04-2012 9:42 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 345 by PaulK, posted 04-04-2012 1:37 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 357 by Buzsaw, posted 04-04-2012 9:03 PM Percy has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 344 of 432 (658377)
04-04-2012 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 331 by Buzsaw
04-04-2012 9:42 AM


Re: Convincing Others
quote:
LoL. How many of you do you think I, being a relative loner here, could ever convince of anything, given the wide gap in our thinking and ideologies?
I think that if you had decent evidence and sound arguments you could do rather better than you do. The fact that you lack both good evidence and good arguments is a major reason why you do so badly here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 331 by Buzsaw, posted 04-04-2012 9:42 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 345 of 432 (658378)
04-04-2012 1:37 PM
Reply to: Message 343 by Percy
04-04-2012 1:29 PM


Re: Convincing Others
More correctly Panda pointed out - yet again - that Buzsaw's ban from the science forum was not an attempt to silence an effective debater, but instead done to remove an arrogant, ignorant, prejudiced, irrational waste of time.
Buz asked for evidence of his stupidity, probably running one of his typical bluffs - and the rest is history. He never learns...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 343 by Percy, posted 04-04-2012 1:29 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
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