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Author Topic:   Introduction To Geology
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2401 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 91 of 293 (658415)
04-04-2012 3:58 PM



great job so far (the part on rivers was the best IMHO). Read everything, though recently discovered this gem. I am more of a geomorphology/geodesy guy (but much of this ties in).

Not sure if you haven't got to it yet or if you are going to cover it, butDo you have anything on Sand dunes? I realize you mentioned them in the Deserts (evap exceeds precip) section, but it seemed very brief. I realize that your topic and interest is due to your acceptance of Uniformitarianism, and that Sand Dunes may not always apply to this assumption, but I think they are important to understanding how natural forces (wind) affect the earth (as in soil and rocks).

Keep it up this has been great so far.


Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by Taq, posted 04-04-2012 4:18 PM Artemis Entreri has responded
 Message 93 by Pressie, posted 04-05-2012 12:52 AM Artemis Entreri has responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 7931
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 92 of 293 (658419)
04-04-2012 4:18 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Artemis Entreri
04-04-2012 3:58 PM


Re:
Not sure if you haven't got to it yet or if you are going to cover it, butDo you have anything on Sand dunes? I realize you mentioned them in the Deserts (evap exceeds precip) section, but it seemed very brief. I realize that your topic and interest is due to your acceptance of Uniformitarianism, and that Sand Dunes may not always apply to this assumption, but I think they are important to understanding how natural forces (wind) affect the earth (as in soil and rocks).

Our understanding of sand dunes in the fossil record comes from our study of sand dunes in the present. That is uniformitarianism.

To start off, I would suggest the wiki page for cross-bedding. It includes pictures of cross-bedded sandstones which are preserved wind blown (eolian) sand dunes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-bedding


This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Artemis Entreri, posted 04-04-2012 3:58 PM Artemis Entreri has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by Artemis Entreri, posted 04-05-2012 9:30 AM Taq has responded

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2041
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 93 of 293 (658445)
04-05-2012 12:52 AM
Reply to: Message 91 by Artemis Entreri
04-04-2012 3:58 PM


Re:
Hi Artemis Entreri

I agree with you on the work done by Dr Adequate. This thread is excellent.

You could of course start reading on sand dunes on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune. Don't forget the references at the bottom.

You little creationist you: "assumption" and "Uniformitarianism".

Edited by Pressie, : Changed whole answer

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Artemis Entreri, posted 04-04-2012 3:58 PM Artemis Entreri has responded

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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16097
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 94 of 293 (658455)
04-05-2012 7:07 AM


On Holiday
I'm on holiday, next week I plan to tell you all about limestone.

---

AE: Thanks for the kind remarks. Was there anything in particular you think I should say about sand dunes? I can always go back and add stuff.


Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by Artemis Entreri, posted 04-05-2012 9:37 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2401 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 95 of 293 (658465)
04-05-2012 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by Pressie
04-05-2012 12:52 AM


Re:
You little creationist you: "assumption" and "Uniformitarianism".

I am not a creationist. Damn talk about assumptions.

Inigio Montoya writes:

that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

since you are a fan of Wikipedia.

Wikipedia writes:

Uniformitarianism is the assumption that the same natural laws and processes that operate in the universe now, have always operated in the universe in the past and apply everywhere in the universe. It has included the gradualistic concept that "the present is the key to the past" and is functioning at the same rates. Uniformitarianism has been a key principle of geology, but naturalism's modern geologists, while accepting that geology has occurred across deep time, no longer hold to a strict gradualism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniformitarianism

the 3rd word in the Wikipedia definition. would you call Wikipedia a creationist for using the word assumption in its definition of Uniformitarianism? Why am I a creationist for saying that?

You could of course start reading on sand dunes on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune. Don't forget the references at the bottom.

Well he is going to cover limestone next, I could read about that on Wikipedia too, I am trying to participate HERE, not read random things on Wikipedia.

LOOK: I am a cartographer. I have my degree in geography, and where I went to school, geology and geography where in the same school, and I was just really happy that EVC had some frickin earth science as opposed to the biology and chemistry that it is usually inundated with (thanks again Dr Adequate).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by Pressie, posted 04-05-2012 12:52 AM Pressie has responded

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 Message 104 by Pressie, posted 04-10-2012 12:52 AM Artemis Entreri has responded

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2401 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 96 of 293 (658466)
04-05-2012 9:30 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by Taq
04-04-2012 4:18 PM


Re:
thanks. That is very interesting. Some sand dunes are old (not geologically speaking though), and are constantly changing form and shape.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Taq, posted 04-04-2012 4:18 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by Taq, posted 04-05-2012 12:41 PM Artemis Entreri has acknowledged this reply

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2401 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 97 of 293 (658468)
04-05-2012 9:37 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by Dr Adequate
04-05-2012 7:07 AM


Re: On Holiday
well enjoy yourself. what holiday is it? I wouldn't peg you for someone who celebrates Easter, and I can't think of any other holidays right now.

AE: Thanks for the kind remarks. Was there anything in particular you think I should say about sand dunes? I can always go back and add stuff.

you are welcome, I have kind words in here somewhere sometimes.

I don't really have any suggestions, other than maybe a brief explanation on the various types of dunes (for some reason crescent dunes get all the love), as I said earlier I am most interested in geomorphology, so I am not sure what yo really add, I was just wondering. I did also wonder why there was a section on Deserts in general, maybe it was just a way to classify the material, but desert is more a meteorology term than a geology one.

I eagerly await limestone.


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Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by PurpleYouko, posted 04-05-2012 10:14 AM Artemis Entreri has acknowledged this reply
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PurpleYouko
Member
Posts: 713
From: Columbia Missouri
Joined: 11-11-2004


Message 98 of 293 (658473)
04-05-2012 10:14 AM
Reply to: Message 97 by Artemis Entreri
04-05-2012 9:37 AM


Re: On Holiday
"On holiday" is English for "on vacation"

See Cliff Richards hit song from the 60s Summer Holiday

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Off-topic banner.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Artemis Entreri, posted 04-05-2012 9:37 AM Artemis Entreri has acknowledged this reply

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 7931
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 99 of 293 (658490)
04-05-2012 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by Artemis Entreri
04-05-2012 9:37 AM


Re: On Holiday
I don't really have any suggestions, other than maybe a brief explanation on the various types of dunes (for some reason crescent dunes get all the love),

Indeed, they do. However, I happen to live within a very short drive of these wonderful dunes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruneau_Dunes_State_Park

They are reportedly the tallest dunes in North America at 470 feet. Interestingly, they do not move and are not the classic mobile crescent shaped dunes. They have remained in their current position since the end of the last Ice Age because the area acts as a trap for windblown sand.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Artemis Entreri, posted 04-05-2012 9:37 AM Artemis Entreri has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by Artemis Entreri, posted 04-06-2012 12:40 PM Taq has responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 7931
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 100 of 293 (658492)
04-05-2012 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Artemis Entreri
04-05-2012 9:30 AM


Re:
thanks. That is very interesting. Some sand dunes are old (not geologically speaking though), and are constantly changing form and shape.

What doesn't change are the laws of physics which underlie the mechanisms that produce wind blown (eolian) sand dunes. We can look at modern sand dunes and use that knowledge to detect wind blown sand dunes in the geologic record. This is uniformitarianism.

What is interesting is that some creationists claim that the deposits seen in the Grand Canyon were produced by a recent global flood. One of those deposits is the Coconino Sandstone. This deposit has all of the markings of eolian deposits. IOW, there had to be a desert with wind blown sand dunes during the flood. This seems very problematic, at least to me.

{Careful - Starting to head off-topic. This topic is a geology course, not a critique of creationist alternatives - Adminnemooseus}

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Note in red.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Artemis Entreri, posted 04-05-2012 9:30 AM Artemis Entreri has acknowledged this reply

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 Message 101 by Coyote, posted 04-05-2012 9:19 PM Taq has not yet responded

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 278 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 101 of 293 (658535)
04-05-2012 9:19 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Taq
04-05-2012 12:41 PM


Re: Creationism as usual
What is interesting is that some creationists claim that the deposits seen in the Grand Canyon were produced by a recent global flood. One of those deposits is the Coconino Sandstone. This deposit has all of the markings of eolian deposits. IOW, there had to be a desert with wind blown sand dunes during the flood. This seems very problematic, at least to me.

Creationists are not really interested in scientific accuracy or even consistency. Their entire goal is to make things come out correctly--i.e., as they interpret scripture. Facts, especially scientific facts, only get in the way.

This lets them "prove" that the Grand Canyon is young, and to attribute it's formation to the global flood some 4,350 years ago based on the evidence of water eroding the sediments deposited by the Mount St. Helens volcano a couple of decades back. That these two examples are so different in all respects doesn't bother them because they can imagine that the results come out supporting their beliefs.

Another example of creationists being inherently anti-science while claiming to be just the opposite.

{Careful - REALLY starting to head off-topic. This topic is a geology course, not a critique of creationist alternatives - Adminnemooseus}

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Note in red.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

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Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2401 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 102 of 293 (658575)
04-06-2012 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by Taq
04-05-2012 12:36 PM


Re: On Holiday
hmm never hear of that state park before, my ID experience consists of Pocatello. Thanks for the link.

They are reportedly the tallest dunes in North America at 470 feet.

I climbed the Dunes at Sleeping Bear Dunes National Lakeshore (in Michigan), and when you climb up that, whew, I swear every one you climb is the tallest one.

I think the Kelso Dunes in CA are taller though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelso_Dunes

Interestingly, they do not move and are not the classic mobile crescent shaped dunes.

From imagery it looks like one large continuous Linear Dune, with wind comming from the north-east and north.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Taq, posted 04-05-2012 12:36 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by Taq, posted 04-09-2012 6:09 PM Artemis Entreri has responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 7931
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 103 of 293 (658800)
04-09-2012 6:09 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by Artemis Entreri
04-06-2012 12:40 PM


Re: On Holiday
hmm never hear of that state park before, my ID experience consists of Pocatello

I live on the West side of the state. Absolutely wonderful geology in the area. My personal favorite is the amazing weathered tuffs at Leslie Gulch (just across the border in Oregon):

http://www.blm.gov/or/resources/recreation/site_info.php?...

Near Pocatello is the Craters of the Moon national park where you can check out massive lava fields:

http://en.wikipedia.org/...on_National_Monument_and_Preserve

In between west and east Idaho you can check out a number of massive and very beautiful canyons that are cut through flood basalts such as this one in Twin Falls (the canyon that Evel Knievel couldn't seem to get across):

http://www.idahoreporter.com/...s/2012/01/Perrine-Bridge.jpg

I am not a geology expert by any means, but the local geology has always interested me. That is why threads like this one always interest me.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Artemis Entreri, posted 04-06-2012 12:40 PM Artemis Entreri has responded

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 Message 106 by Artemis Entreri, posted 04-10-2012 10:16 AM Taq has not yet responded
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Pressie
Member
Posts: 2041
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 104 of 293 (658820)
04-10-2012 12:52 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by Artemis Entreri
04-05-2012 9:26 AM


Re:
Artemis Entreti

My sentence: You little creationist you: "assumption" and "Uniformitarianism", was written with a big grinning face at the end. I was joking.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Artemis Entreri, posted 04-05-2012 9:26 AM Artemis Entreri has responded

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Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2401 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 105 of 293 (658841)
04-10-2012 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by Pressie
04-10-2012 12:52 AM


Re:
o
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