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Author Topic:   An Atheist By Any Other Name . . .
Granny Magda
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Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 4.0


(5)
Message 166 of 209 (658708)
04-09-2012 3:32 AM
Reply to: Message 163 by shadow71
04-08-2012 8:19 PM


Re: hedging
There comes a time when I really don't care what non-believers really think
You asked.
Seriously, you asked, we answered, now you are apparently in a sulk because you don't like the answers. How pathetically childish.
I can only suggest that, if you are going to get upset when you don't like the answers, you cease asking questions.
I will believe what I know in my heart is true.
You might want to try using your brain.
You will call me delusional.
Will it ever end.?
Well no. You have said yourself that no evidence or argument could possibly sway you. In the face of such dogmatism, what end could there be? All I can suggest is that you stop asking difficult questions if you're going to act offended when you receive answers.
Mutate and Survive

This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by shadow71, posted 04-08-2012 8:19 PM shadow71 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by shadow71, posted 04-09-2012 12:49 PM Granny Magda has replied

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4229 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 167 of 209 (658748)
04-09-2012 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 162 by Percy
04-06-2012 4:16 PM


Re: so no answer i assume?
roflmfao
your tactics are like 12 years old on the playground
Percy: whatever you say is bullshit! neener neener neener.
sounds like you have been talking to these creationists too long you are beginning to sound like them.
you dodged the question. LOL
Edited by Artemis Entreri, : No reason given.

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Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4229 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 168 of 209 (658749)
04-09-2012 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 161 by bluegenes
04-06-2012 1:42 PM


Re: Not bad, but.....
on here there are not many Atheists. these people are ANTI-Theists. there is a huge difference.
shit disturber is very accurate when it comes to the "anti" crowd.
Edited by Artemis Entreri, : No reason given.

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Taq
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Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


(3)
Message 169 of 209 (658765)
04-09-2012 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by shadow71
04-08-2012 8:19 PM


Re: hedging
Will it ever end.?
It will come closer to an end when . . . :
1. people are not stripped of freedoms because of the theistic beliefs of others.
2. government policy is based on reason and evidence.
3. education policy is not based on theistic beliefs.
IOW, when these supposedly private beliefs stay private.

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shadow71
Member (Idle past 2934 days)
Posts: 706
From: Joliet, il, USA
Joined: 08-31-2010


Message 170 of 209 (658766)
04-09-2012 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by dwise1
04-09-2012 1:06 AM


Re: hedging
dwise1 writes:
Shadow71, Taq expressed the hope of greater understanding between the two sides. You rejected that. I would hope that you reconsider your ill-considered choice.
I am just sick and tired of being called delusional because I believe in God.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by dwise1, posted 04-09-2012 1:06 AM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by Taq, posted 04-09-2012 12:49 PM shadow71 has replied
 Message 182 by dwise1, posted 04-09-2012 3:40 PM shadow71 has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 171 of 209 (658767)
04-09-2012 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by shadow71
04-09-2012 12:44 PM


Re: hedging
I am just sick and tired of being called delusional because I believe in God.
I think both sides of this discussion has been called one thing or another.
How do you view people who believe in a god that you don't believe in? What word would you use to describe them?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by shadow71, posted 04-09-2012 12:44 PM shadow71 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by shadow71, posted 04-09-2012 12:52 PM Taq has not replied

  
shadow71
Member (Idle past 2934 days)
Posts: 706
From: Joliet, il, USA
Joined: 08-31-2010


Message 172 of 209 (658768)
04-09-2012 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by Granny Magda
04-09-2012 3:32 AM


Re: hedging
Granny Magda writes:
Well no. You have said yourself that no evidence or argument could possibly sway you. In the face of such dogmatism, what end could there be? All I can suggest is that you stop asking difficult questions if you're going to act offended when you receive answers.
I ask you to give me a truthful answer. Do you believe there is any evidence or argument that could possibly sway you to that God exists?
And, why do nonbelievers on this board and people like Sagan call believers "delusional"?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by Granny Magda, posted 04-09-2012 3:32 AM Granny Magda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 173 by Taq, posted 04-09-2012 12:51 PM shadow71 has not replied
 Message 178 by Granny Magda, posted 04-09-2012 1:58 PM shadow71 has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


(2)
Message 173 of 209 (658769)
04-09-2012 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by shadow71
04-09-2012 12:49 PM


Re: hedging
I ask you to give me a truthful answer. Do you believe there is any evidence or argument that could possibly sway you to that God exists?
If a 1,000 foot Zeus came down from the clouds and threw lightning at my feet I would be rather impressed, especially if this was witnessed by thousands of other people. To restate what was said before, I require the same evidence to believe in your god that you require for all of those thousands of other gods that you don't believe in.

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 Message 172 by shadow71, posted 04-09-2012 12:49 PM shadow71 has not replied

  
shadow71
Member (Idle past 2934 days)
Posts: 706
From: Joliet, il, USA
Joined: 08-31-2010


Message 174 of 209 (658770)
04-09-2012 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by Taq
04-09-2012 12:49 PM


Re: hedging
Taq writes:
How do you view people who believe in a god that you don't believe in? What word would you use to describe them?
I don't call them delusional. I respect their right to believe what they want to believe.
I may tell them I think they are wrong. But I don't call them delusional.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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 Message 171 by Taq, posted 04-09-2012 12:49 PM Taq has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by Theodoric, posted 04-09-2012 1:07 PM shadow71 has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(2)
Message 175 of 209 (658771)
04-09-2012 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by shadow71
04-09-2012 12:52 PM


Delusion? In a word
I may tell them I think they are wrong. But I don't call them delusional.
What the hell is the difference? Telling them they are wrong means that you think their beliefs are delusional. Are you just hung up on the word delusional?
Ok you are not delusional. You are just totally, utterly, 100% WRONG.
Is that better?
Have you ever looked up the definition for delusional?
quote:
having false or unrealistic beliefs or opinions
Source
How is that different from "wrong"?
Why are so many christians ok calling other people wrong, but get insulted if anyone even hints they might be just a little not correct in everything they believe.
Christian persecution complex strikes again.
Edited by Theodoric, : subtitle

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by shadow71, posted 04-09-2012 12:52 PM shadow71 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by shadow71, posted 04-09-2012 1:35 PM Theodoric has replied

  
shadow71
Member (Idle past 2934 days)
Posts: 706
From: Joliet, il, USA
Joined: 08-31-2010


Message 176 of 209 (658773)
04-09-2012 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by Theodoric
04-09-2012 1:07 PM


Re: Delusion? In a word
Here is the other definition in your link.
Psychiatry . maintaining fixed false beliefs even when confronted with facts, usually as a result of mental illness: He was so delusional and paranoid that he thought everybody was conspiring against him.
Theodoric writes:
How is that different from "wrong"?
When I tell someone I believe his or her beliefs are wrong I am telling them that I don't agree with their beliefs.
If I tell them there beliefs are delusional I am telling them they are in false and against all of the facts.
To me there is a big difference between wrong and delusional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by Theodoric, posted 04-09-2012 1:07 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 177 by Theodoric, posted 04-09-2012 1:44 PM shadow71 has replied
 Message 179 by Tangle, posted 04-09-2012 1:59 PM shadow71 has replied
 Message 180 by Rahvin, posted 04-09-2012 2:12 PM shadow71 has replied
 Message 181 by Granny Magda, posted 04-09-2012 2:24 PM shadow71 has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 177 of 209 (658774)
04-09-2012 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by shadow71
04-09-2012 1:35 PM


Re: Delusion? In a word
When I tell someone I believe his or her beliefs are wrong I am telling them that I don't agree with their beliefs.
If I tell them there beliefs are delusional I am telling them they are in false and against all of the facts.
So when you tell them you think they are wrong you don't believe their beliefs are false or against all facts??
So what do you think about these beliefs you think are wrong? That they are correct and comport to facts? Then why would you think they are wrong.
To me there is a big difference between wrong and delusional.
What you think has no bearing on reality does it.
Edited by Theodoric, : remove extraneous ? mark

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by shadow71, posted 04-09-2012 1:35 PM shadow71 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 188 by shadow71, posted 04-09-2012 7:42 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 4.0


(2)
Message 178 of 209 (658775)
04-09-2012 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by shadow71
04-09-2012 12:49 PM


Re: hedging
I ask you to give me a truthful answer.
And you got dozens of them. You're still not satisfied. In fact, you're starting to get snotty. But wait; I thought you weren't interested in our opinions?
shadow71 writes:
There comes a time when I really don't care what non-believers really think.
Remember? How does that gel with your alleged desire for honesty? Were you lying then or are you lying now?
Do you believe there is any evidence or argument that could possibly sway you to that God exists?
Of course. he could appear before in all his blazing glory. Throw some lightning around, wrestle a unicorn, you know... all his showy stuff. That might not instantly convince me - I would have to bear in mind the strong possibility that I had gone stark staring mad - but it would certainly give me cause to serious rethink Christianity.
As I have explained over and over, I am not a dogmatist or a zealot. I am not like you. I can admit to myself that I might be wrong. this is the difference between us and the reason why atheist thinking is so baffling to you. not everyone thinks like you; some of us have humility.
And, why do nonbelievers on this board and people like Sagan call believers "delusional"?
Because (a) we think you are delusional and (b) because you asked! You asked for honest answers! Well you got them! I can't tell you that I think you're right when I really think that you're wrong. I owe you that much respect at least.
As Theo said above, if you believe in God and I believe gods to be fictional, then it necessarily follows that I think you are deluded. It also follows that you think that I am deluded. You claim that there is clear evidence of God, although you seem unsure as to what it might actually be. Lourdes or something? You don't know... Well I am in denial of that evidence. Clearly, I am deluded.
Just for the record, when in Message 88 I said "To my mind, the term "agnostic" implies considerably more doubt than this, otherwise what's the value in these terms? All but the most deluded zealots would be agnostic, leaving us with no useful terminology to describe more reasonable positions." I was talking about a hypothetical zealot, someone who claimed absolute knowledge of God's existence. I was not talking about you. At time I had assumed that I was speaking to a reasonable person. Having read your comments in Message 100 though, I can now see why you chose to take offence at my criticism of deluded zealots.
Anyhow, I am at a loss to explain your continued presence in this thread. You don't want to change our minds. You have made it clear that you are enough of a zealot that nothing could even conceivably change your mind. You're not interested in what anyone else thinks. You're not even really telling us much about what you think. What's the point? What are you trying to accomplish? Or are you really just whining because Carl Sagan called you deluded?
Mutate and Survive

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by shadow71, posted 04-09-2012 12:49 PM shadow71 has replied

Replies to this message:
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Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 179 of 209 (658776)
04-09-2012 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by shadow71
04-09-2012 1:35 PM


Re: Delusion? In a word
shadow writes:
To me there is a big difference between wrong and delusional
Could that be because you're delusional?

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by shadow71, posted 04-09-2012 1:35 PM shadow71 has replied

Replies to this message:
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Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 180 of 209 (658778)
04-09-2012 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by shadow71
04-09-2012 1:35 PM


Re: Delusion? In a word
Psychiatry . maintaining fixed false beliefs even when confronted with facts,
shadow71, this basically means that every single person who believes in a global Flood myth or does not believe that evolution is the driving force behind biodiversity is, in fact, delusional. Creationism is a set of fixed false beliefs typically held even after exposure to facts which falsify them.

The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.
- Francis Bacon
"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers
A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity. — Albert Camus

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by shadow71, posted 04-09-2012 1:35 PM shadow71 has replied

Replies to this message:
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