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Author Topic:   Scriptural evidence that Jesus is Messiah:
DWIII
Member (Idle past 1753 days)
Posts: 72
From: United States
Joined: 06-30-2011


(1)
Message 10 of 304 (659291)
04-14-2012 9:04 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Dawn Bertot
04-14-2012 1:27 AM


Dawn Bertot writes:
The liberal or humanist argues (assumes) thusly. The writer of the Old Testament must have been the actual writer of that prophecy. The writer must have been correct concerning the things of which he was speaking. The writer, even thought he claims to have been inspired by God and to speak by thus saith the Lord, he could not actually have been inspired, or was inspired but could not have been refering to Christ
All of these assuances the liberal or humanist either ascribes or assignes to the Old Testament writer, but then with all the power he can muster claims that the writer of the NT must be a fake and a fraude. He does all this concerning the NT writers, but provides no way of distinguishing between his confidence in the Old Testament writer verses the New
IOWs, what is the criteria you are using to know that the Old Testament writer is correct in the first place to know he is not speaking about Christ?
Why does the NT writer not get the same confidence you afford the prophet of old?
Simple. The New Testament writers invented the dishonest practice of quote-mining.
Do any of your Jewish friends accept that these out-of-context snippets refer specifically to Jesus?

DWIII

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Dawn Bertot, posted 04-14-2012 1:27 AM Dawn Bertot has not replied

  
DWIII
Member (Idle past 1753 days)
Posts: 72
From: United States
Joined: 06-30-2011


Message 24 of 304 (659434)
04-15-2012 9:36 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by GDR
04-15-2012 6:02 PM


Re: First things first.
GDR writes:
Firstly, my concern about going down the road of trying to prove an inerrant Bible by using the prophesies in the OT, it appears to me that we are making the Christian faith dependent on an inerrant Bible. Christianity is about worshipping a risen Christ, it is not about worshipping the Bible. If there are errors in the Biblical prophesies so what? That does not mean that Jesus wasn’t resurrected to new life, and that His message, the message that we Christians are supposed to espouse and enact in our lives, isn’t based on truth
A fair point; Augustine of Hippo said as much. After all, Paul didn't write (in 1 Corinthians 15) "If the Bible is not inerrant, our faith is in vain".
The nearly-hysterical emphasis on inerrancy (wrt Christianity) is a much more recent development.

DWIII

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by GDR, posted 04-15-2012 6:02 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by GDR, posted 04-15-2012 11:59 PM DWIII has replied

  
DWIII
Member (Idle past 1753 days)
Posts: 72
From: United States
Joined: 06-30-2011


Message 28 of 304 (659489)
04-16-2012 9:20 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by GDR
04-15-2012 11:59 PM


Re: First things first.
GDR writes:
DWIII writes:
A fair point; Augustine of Hippo said as much. After all, Paul didn't write (in 1 Corinthians 15) "If the Bible is not inerrant, our faith is in vain".
The nearly-hysterical emphasis on inerrancy (wrt Christianity) is a much more recent development.
Thus encouraged I’ll go further.
Well, as long as you don't let it go to your head... :-)
If we accept as truth what I wrote in my last post as to the evidence for the bodily resurrection then we can go from there. I started in this vain in Message 15 of this thread. Considering that the writers of the gospels, (including the authors who wrote the original texts on which the Gospels were based be it Q or whatever), believed in the bodily resurrection of Jesus, then we should be able to fairly safely assume that they wanted to make what they recorded as accurate as possible.
Unfortunately, whatever alleged motivation existed for accuracy was more than likely compromised by agenda-pushing. Even John admits near the end of his Gospel that "these things were written so that you may believe": a tacit admission of propaganda.
Through this I believe that it is possible to understand what it was that Jesus believed about Himself and about His mission.
With a well annotated Bible it is easy to see that Jesus based these beliefs, or at least His way of trying to explain it to others, on the Hebrew Scriptures.
In several places He straightforwardly claims the mantle of the Jewish Messiah.
In your previous post, you referenced several other contemporaneous contenders for Messiahship. Did they not themselves make such claims, and/or had such claims made on their behalf? I can easily imagine a slightly different world than ours, where one of those movements started by an alternative Messiah succeeded instead of Jesus, and we would today be arguing whether or not Simon of Peraea, after he was decapitated by the Romans, grew a new head in fulfillment of the Scriptures.
Now we come to the resurrection and as I have said, we have to assume that God could resurrect anyone at any time He might choose but it seems that He chose to resurrect this one man in all of human history. He chose to resurrect the one who made these outlandish claims. If all this is correct then it means that Jesus was fully vindicated and that He truly was the Messiah and truly was the embodiment of God the Father, or at least it is a reasonable assumption to make.
For that matter, God could just as easily have miraculously resurrected any one of those Messianic claimants, whilst leaving all the others (including Jesus) dead and buried. Would this make such a big difference to any of us some 2,000 years later?

DWIII

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by GDR, posted 04-15-2012 11:59 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by GDR, posted 04-16-2012 2:36 PM DWIII has seen this message but not replied

  
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