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Author Topic:   Can You define God?
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 31 of 318 (660169)
04-21-2012 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by 2ndReign
10-03-2010 1:24 AM


Re: Defing God
2ndReigh writes:

I don't believe in God personally but for the sake of discussion, I will concede that he does exist for the simple fact how can there be any kind of in-depth discussion on God if we are still arguing weather God exists or not.
Poe said...

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If we cannot comprehend God in his visible works, how then in his inconceivable thoughts, that call the works into being? If we cannot understand him in his objective creatures, how then in his substantive moods and phases of creation?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As humans,we like to understand things. We feel the need to put them into some type of category, to name them. This has been a good thing for our species in many circumstances but in the case of God the ability to define or even name him is an impossibility. Yet that does not mean that it is not worth the attempt to gain some understanding of what God is, only that we must understand before we begin that defining something limits that something, and describing something often gets confused with defining something. You try to define your love of someone by describing why you love them. You attempt to define the sky by describing its properties,etc. So based on this,can you define God? Some if most would say that God is good, merciful, just, loving, and all powerful. All of these are words to describe him. It doesn't make them untrue, it simply avoided the bigger challenge, and that is defining him.

I don't believe in God personally but for the sake of discussion, I will concede that he does exist for the simple fact how can there be any kind of in-depth discussion on God if we are still arguing weather God exists or not.
Poe said...

quote:
If we cannot comprehend God in his visible works, how then in his inconceivable thoughts, that call the works into being? If we cannot understand him in his objective creatures, how then in his substantive moods and phases of creation?

As humans,we like to understand things. We feel the need to put them into some type of category, to name them. This has been a good thing for our species in many circumstances but in the case of God the ability to define or even name him is an impossibility. Yet that does not mean that it is not worth the attempt to gain some understanding of what God is, only that we must understand before we begin that defining something limits that something, and describing something often gets confused with defining something. You try to define your love of someone by describing why you love them. You attempt to define the sky by describing its properties,etc. So based on this,can you define God? Some if most would say that God is good, merciful, just, loving, and all powerful. All of these are words to describe him. It doesn't make them untrue, it simply avoided the bigger challenge, and that is defining him.

I assume that you refer to the Biblical god, Jehovah. This is his proper name. In grammer, a proper name is what our surname is; that is our given name.

That name, Jehovah (WHWH/Yahwey) in Hebrew is His proper name. In all manuscripts, from which most translations were derived, unfortunately, nearly all followed the superstituous belief of the late pre-Christ Jews that God's name was not to be spoken. Therefore most translators of OT scriptures took it upon themselves to change most of the 6000 plus times Jehovah was written to the generic word for lord/master, i.e. adonai. This was a violation of Jehovah's warning that scripture must always be copied precisely as written.

There are several places in the OT and implications in the NT that Jehovah is the supreme entity who's certain dwelling abode is in the heavens/cosmos of the Universe,

As per the Biblical scriptures we know a great deal about what and who Jehovah is. For example, he has been eternally existing within the Universe's cosmos, clearly implicating an infinite time and spaced Universe.

He is described as the designer/creator of all that exists. He is described a complex spirit entity, not physically visible, as are all spirit beings, including angels and demons etc.

He is described as a working entity, who's designing and creative ability requires work, so as to prevent an equilibrium of entropy, essentially creating a perpetually energic system, i.e the Universe, in which he resides and manages.

He is described as loving god, yet one who is to be feared, worshipped obeyed, sought out and submitted to, being creatures created by him.

He can be compared to, in one sense as the giant computer of the Universe.

He sits on the supreme throne (control) room of the Universe, from which his multi-present spirit, i.e. the holy spirit is capable of doing the work of Jehovah whereever in the Universe he is sent. I say multi-present, as God's working spirit is capable of existing in as many places as God desires, simultaneously.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

Someone wisely said something ;ike, "Before fooling with a fool, make sure the fool is a fool." :)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by 2ndReign, posted 10-03-2010 1:24 AM 2ndReign has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-21-2012 3:55 PM Buzsaw has responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16083
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 32 of 318 (660175)
04-21-2012 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Buzsaw
04-21-2012 3:36 PM


Re: Defing God
I assume that you refer to the Biblical god, Jehovah. This is his proper name. In grammer, a proper name is what our surname is; that is our given name.

* coughs *

"Given name" actually refers to your personal name (in our culture, your first name) as opposed to your surname.

Whether Jehovah is a surname or a personal name is a question that I shall leave up to the theologians.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Buzsaw, posted 04-21-2012 3:36 PM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Buzsaw, posted 04-21-2012 4:35 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 33 of 318 (660178)
04-21-2012 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Dr Adequate
04-21-2012 3:55 PM


Re: Defing God
DA writes:

Given name" actually refers to your personal name (in our culture, your first name) as opposed to your surname.

Whether Jehovah is a surname or a personal name is a question that I shall leave up to the theologians.

I should have stuck to the term, proper in reference to his name, Jehovah.

It was not his given name, he being an eternal entity. He was never given anything pertaining to his definition or description.

LoL on the average theologian. Most either aren't aware, don't care or have not been taught in their programmed theological universities and seminaries. All most know, scripurally is what was programmed into them during their four to twelve years of formal education.

Thus one who's been studiously into the Bible daily for decades, regardless of whether one has a degree may be more Biblical knowledgeable than your average degreed theologian.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

Someone wisely said something ;ike, "Before fooling with a fool, make sure the fool is a fool." :)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-21-2012 3:55 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by ringo, posted 04-21-2012 5:37 PM Buzsaw has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 16118
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 34 of 318 (660187)
04-21-2012 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Buzsaw
04-21-2012 4:35 PM


Re: Defing God
Buzsaw writes:

It was not his given name, he being an eternal entity. He was never given anything pertaining to his definition or description.


Why would He need a name at all?

Names are generally used to distinguish one from another. Within the family, James is distinguished from John. In the general population, John of Winchester is distinguished from John of Remington.

If there is only one God, what does a name distinguish Him from?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Buzsaw, posted 04-21-2012 4:35 PM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by jar, posted 04-21-2012 5:45 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply
 Message 37 by Buzsaw, posted 04-21-2012 9:47 PM ringo has responded
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jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 35 of 318 (660189)
04-21-2012 5:45 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by ringo
04-21-2012 5:37 PM


Re: Defing God
All the other "only one Gods".

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by ringo, posted 04-21-2012 5:37 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
ProtoTypical
Member
Posts: 1773
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


Message 36 of 318 (660193)
04-21-2012 7:50 PM


God is...
God is the sum total of our aspirations.
  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 37 of 318 (660199)
04-21-2012 9:47 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by ringo
04-21-2012 5:37 PM


Re: Defing God
ringo writes:

Why would He need a name at all?
Names are generally used to distinguish one from another. Within the family, James is distinguished from John. In the general population, John of Winchester is distinguished from John of Remington.

If there is only one God, what does a name distinguish Him from?

Hi Ringo. First off, great to see you posting again.

He would need a name to distinguish him from the thousands of other alleged gods. The name, Jehovah has a meaning, i.e. the one existing.

Though he is the only god supported by visible corroborative and correlated evidence pertaining to his book to mankind, the Biblical record, there are other acclaimed gods having various proper names. The Islamic god, Allah is an example.

Edited by Buzsaw, : No reason given.

Edited by Buzsaw, : No reason given.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

Someone wisely said something ;ike, "Before fooling with a fool, make sure the fool is a fool." :)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by ringo, posted 04-21-2012 5:37 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by frako, posted 04-22-2012 8:45 AM Buzsaw has responded
 Message 46 by ringo, posted 04-22-2012 4:03 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2812
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 38 of 318 (660216)
04-22-2012 8:45 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by Buzsaw
04-21-2012 9:47 PM


Re: Defing God
Though he is the only god supported by visible corroborative and correlated evidence pertaining to his book to mankind

O rly the absolute only one.

Dont the Mormons have a copy of a holy text made of gold then taken away by an angel.

Mohamed had his book dictated by an angel if im not mistaken.

And they all have plenty of "evidence" for their gods existence.

MY definition of god an imagined being or entity capable of anything the one imagines it of doing, constructed by ones mind primarily because the mind seeks to understand the "order" of things and when real explanations are unavailable the god imagination takes over so the individual does not have to be afraid of not knowing. The other primary reason for this imagined construct is fear of death, not being able to cope that someone is gone and that one day too the individual constructing this fantasy will be gone one constructs an illusion where one can live forever with ones loved ones.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

Click if you dare!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Buzsaw, posted 04-21-2012 9:47 PM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Buzsaw, posted 04-22-2012 9:34 AM frako has responded

    
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 39 of 318 (660220)
04-22-2012 9:34 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by frako
04-22-2012 8:45 AM


Re: Defing God
frako writes:

Dont the Mormons have a copy of a holy text made of gold then taken away by an angel.

Mohamed had his book dictated by an angel if im not mistaken.

No hard visible evidence pertaining to either of these, such as something to show that these are falsifyable; no visible supportive evidence whatsoever.

Whenever the Mormons come to my door, I invite them in to cite something. I've offered to become a Mormon if they could. No soap.

I have a B of M, and as with the Quran have researched it for decades. Roughly a third of it is essentially plagarized from the Bible. Like the Quran, they're both jonny-come-lately futil attempts to best the Biblical record. LoL!

Satan and his host of angellic demon deceivers always see to it that their false prophets lace enough good into their stuff to draw people into them.

Neither mention the Biblical god's proper name, in their books, that I'm aware of. Neither have any significant fulfilled prophecy whatsoever, etc.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

Someone wisely said something ;ike, "Before fooling with a fool, make sure the fool is a fool." :)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by frako, posted 04-22-2012 8:45 AM frako has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by jar, posted 04-22-2012 9:51 AM Buzsaw has responded
 Message 43 by frako, posted 04-22-2012 12:12 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 40 of 318 (660225)
04-22-2012 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by Buzsaw
04-22-2012 9:34 AM


Re: Defing God
Buz writes:

Neither have any significant fulfilled prophecy whatsoever, etc.

Can you provide any evidence of fulfilled prophecy that first appeared in any of the New Testament?


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Buzsaw, posted 04-22-2012 9:34 AM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Buzsaw, posted 04-22-2012 11:39 AM jar has responded

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 41 of 318 (660227)
04-22-2012 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by jar
04-22-2012 9:51 AM


Re: Defing God
jar writes:

Can you provide any evidence of fulfilled prophecy that first appeared in any of the New Testament?

Over the years I've cited and debated scores of them. They're right there in my Buz archived profile. You've yet to acknowledge one. Why waste my time on your trollish calls for the same ole?


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

Someone wisely said something ;ike, "Before fooling with a fool, make sure the fool is a fool." :)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by jar, posted 04-22-2012 9:51 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by jar, posted 04-22-2012 11:46 AM Buzsaw has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 42 of 318 (660228)
04-22-2012 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by Buzsaw
04-22-2012 11:39 AM


Re: Defing God
You have yet to provide a link to any post where you "cited and debated scores of them".

Perhaps this time you can provide a link to a post where you "cited and debated scores of them"?


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Buzsaw, posted 04-22-2012 11:39 AM Buzsaw has acknowledged this reply

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2812
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 43 of 318 (660229)
04-22-2012 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Buzsaw
04-22-2012 9:34 AM


Re: Defing God
Neither mention the Biblical god's proper name, in their books, that I'm aware of.

Well DDDDDDDDDD, thats cause your worshipping an imagined god and they worship the right one with its proper name.

no visible supportive evidence whatsoever.

Name some from the bibles example so i know what you are talking about and cite you some examples from these holy books of their only god.

I have a B of M, and as with the Quran have researched it for decades. Roughly a third of it is essentially plagarized from the Bible. Like the Quran, they're both jonny-come-lately futil attempts to best the Biblical record. LoL!

You got it all wrong they came to fix the bible because the Hebrews changed the word of god they dint eave get his name right common what god would call him self jehova the name gives me a visualisation of someone who is starving. Now Allah that's a proper name for a god the name reminds me of someone taking action.

Satan and his host of angellic demon deceivers always see to it that their false prophets lace enough good into their stuff to draw people into them.

Satan has his own bible and i dint mention it but since you bring it up what is wrong with worshipping Satan as the one and only god.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

Click if you dare!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Buzsaw, posted 04-22-2012 9:34 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Phat, posted 04-22-2012 1:01 PM frako has responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 12025
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 44 of 318 (660230)
04-22-2012 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by frako
04-22-2012 12:12 PM


Re: Defining God
quote:
...i dint mention it but since you bring it up what is wrong with worshipping Satan as the one and only god.
Some say that humans tend to worship their own collective and individual intellect as the one true god, though they don't consciously see it as an act of worship but, rather, as a celebration of independence and destiny.

In my belief, God has chosen to have a relationship of sorts with me and with any other human so willing to accept a logically foolish premise.

Why College Students Are Losing Their Religion

I will admit to a bias favoring the existence of God. What many of my critics wont admit is a bias against any possibility of His/Her/Its existence above and beyond their imagination. They simply deify their own common sense.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by frako, posted 04-22-2012 12:12 PM frako has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by frako, posted 04-22-2012 5:23 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 45 of 318 (660233)
04-22-2012 1:55 PM


humans have always been very good at defining God.
Folks have always been making up and defining God, some folk go so far as to give their God a personal name like Allah or Zeus or Coyote or Isis. Often the people grow up and send the God to Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends where the God gets a chance to be put up for adoption. For example, Zeus was adopted by the Romans and renamed Jupiter; Allah has been adopted many times and Buz calls him Jehovah. Usually the Gods are pretty flexible and have gotten used to being renamed over time.

It's not just names that evolve over time. Sometimes it seems that a God or Goddess gets tired of their current mate and so change partners. They also evolve over time; for example the God found in Genesis 2&3 is quite different from the God defined in Genesis 1. Different owners have been very, very flexible about giving an adopted God new powers or limitations or friends or enemies or clothes.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

  
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