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Author Topic:   Can You define God?
ringo
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Posts: 16128
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 46 of 318 (660240)
04-22-2012 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Buzsaw
04-21-2012 9:47 PM


Re: Defing God
Buzsaw writes:

He would need a name to distinguish him from the thousands of other alleged gods. The name, Jehovah has a meaning, i.e. the one existing.

quote:
Exodus 3:13-14 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

You seem to have missed the joke. Moses asked God, "Which God shall I say sent me?" and God answered, "The one that exists."

It isn't a name so much as a punchline.

Buzsaw writes:

Though he is the only god supported by visible corroborative and correlated evidence....


And you still don't understand what evidence is.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Buzsaw, posted 04-21-2012 9:47 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2813
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 47 of 318 (660244)
04-22-2012 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Phat
04-22-2012 1:01 PM


Re: Defining God
I will admit to a bias favoring the existence of God. What many of my critics wont admit is a bias against any possibility of His/Her/Its existence above and beyond their imagination. They simply deify their own common sense.

Well im not bias t words the possibility of there being a god or god like creature somewhere out there in the multi verse. Im just biast against magic.

If i go back 1000 years with a shotgun rifle and a harly Davison how many do you think i could convince that i was a god?

Even if there is a creature that can create an entire universe just by thinking it would still follow natural rules and be explainable by science.

The problem is human concepts of souls, and gods are made up their only purpose is to be able to cope with death, and not knowing.

A big flash of light from the sky burned my house down. - well that was zeus he is angry with you try burning some cows to make him happy.

There are some very beautiful colours in the sky. Well that is god sighn that he is taking an anger manigment class, that is mavrica she is drinking from 2 lakes at once and making it rain.

What happens to you after you die? - well you fly of to planet Xenu where you get a harem of women and send your children to be borne as mortals to other planets then ascend to gods and come here.

How can you fly of when your body rots decays and starts to smell? Well your soul an invisible, untouchable unmeasurable thing y fly s of that is actually you you can see that because some people who have brain injuries become completely different people even though their soul is the same.

thing is gods get pushed further back all the time.

Where does you god live?
Mount Olympus, we scaled mount Olympus in 1925 no god there.
Where does you god live?
well he is the god of the sky, Well they dint think we would go and look for him there but we jumped, we flew we soared all over our sky to the edge of space and beyond. no god found
Where does your god live?
Well he lives beyond time and space.
do you think that will stop us from checking?

What did your god(s) do?
He unleashes snow, rain and stuff from his storehouses in heaven - Biblical god
They throw lighting around, change the seasons, help you win wares ....

What do they do now?
They sometimes make miracles like when thousands of people visit a place with miracle curing water and a handful cured. Allot die because they stop taking their meds and in some there is no change.

Oh yea and the gods today keep heaven tidy so your soul can go there and party for eternity.

Edited by frako, : No reason given.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

Click if you dare!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Phat, posted 04-22-2012 1:01 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Buzsaw, posted 04-22-2012 6:14 PM frako has responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16083
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 10.0


(1)
Message 48 of 318 (660247)
04-22-2012 5:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by 2ndReign
10-03-2010 1:24 AM


"The invisible man who watches you masturbate."
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by 2ndReign, posted 10-03-2010 1:24 AM 2ndReign has not yet responded

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 49 of 318 (660249)
04-22-2012 6:14 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by frako
04-22-2012 5:23 PM


Re: Defining God
frako writes:

Well im not bias t words the possibility of there being a god or god like creature somewhere out there in the multi verse. Im just biast against magic.

Well, in fact, you are biased. When you finish your trollish biased rants, contributing nothing edifying, perhaps you would kindly cut and paste the specifics of Message 31 pertaining to the Biblical god, Jehovah.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

Someone wisely said something ;ike, "Before fooling with a fool, make sure the fool is a fool." :)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by frako, posted 04-22-2012 5:23 PM frako has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by frako, posted 04-22-2012 6:48 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2813
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 50 of 318 (660251)
04-22-2012 6:48 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Buzsaw
04-22-2012 6:14 PM


Re: Defining God
ontributing nothing edifying, perhaps you would kindly cut and paste the specifics of Message 31 pertaining to the Biblical god, Jehovah.

Ok sure why not


I assume that you refer to the Biblical god, Jehovah. This is his proper name. In grammer, a proper name is what our surname is; that is our given name.

That name, Jehovah (WHWH/Yahwey) in Hebrew is His proper name. In all manuscripts, from which most translations were derived, unfortunately, nearly all followed the superstituous belief of the late pre-Christ Jews that God's name was not to be spoken. Therefore most translators of OT scriptures took it upon themselves to change most of the 6000 plus times Jehovah was written to the generic word for lord/master, i.e. adonai. This was a violation of Jehovah's warning that scripture must always be copied precisely as written.

Well its not the only time the bible "evolved" but hey if the book that is completely true because it is written in the book that it is completely true says that the name of the guy who wrote the book is Jehovah who am i to argue.


There are several places in the OT and implications in the NT that Jehovah is the supreme entity who's certain dwelling abode is in the heavens/cosmos of the Universe,

No the book NEVER says anything about an universe it only mentions heaven you know the blue by day black by night dome above our flat earth.


As per the Biblical scriptures we know a great deal about what and who Jehovah is. For example, he has been eternally existing within the Universe's cosmos, clearly implicating an infinite time and spaced Universe.

Yea but the universe ha sent existed eternally only about 15 billion years so has time , and what bible are u using i cant find a single mention of the word universe only heaven or up in the sky ...


He is described as the designer/creator of all that exists. He is described a complex spirit entity, not physically visible, as are all spirit beings, including angels and demons etc.

But sometimes he is visible one time he even had a sword fight with a king. Does he also create and uncreate virtual particles CONSTANTLY?


He is described as a working entity, who's designing and creative ability requires work, so as to prevent an equilibrium of entropy, essentially creating a perpetually energic system, i.e the Universe, in which he resides and manages.

More like a speaking entity he says something and it happens Let there be light, lets part the waters from the land, lets make some plants, Lets make the sun and the stars (duno where the first light came from but hey its god right)


He is described as loving god, yet one who is to be feared, worshipped obeyed, sought out and submitted to, being creatures created by him.

Yea i really dont get the part loving comes in to the equation subbnit to me or il torture you for eternity.


He can be compared to, in one sense as the giant computer of the Universe.

Why does the universe need a computer it works fine on its own. What does he do when he gets a virus? format c


He sits on the supreme throne (control) room of the Universe, from which his multi-present spirit, i.e. the holy spirit is capable of doing the work of Jehovah whereever in the Universe he is sent. I say multi-present, as God's working spirit is capable of existing in as many places as God desires, simultaneously.

You do know how silly this sounds, and he is not multi- present he is OMNI-PRESENT being everywhere at the same time all the time read your bible man. He is there with you when you take a dump it says so in that bronze age book that does not mention universe, or computer, or control room. But does mention useful facts on how to cure leprosy using the blood of pigeons dosent mention anything about hepatitis c but hey, its only a daemon that can be cast out as all desieses are like the book says, not some silly microbes and viruses like science would want you to believe.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

Click if you dare!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Buzsaw, posted 04-22-2012 6:14 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

    
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 51 of 318 (660253)
04-22-2012 7:21 PM


Tally, So Far:
So far the debate tally is Buz 0, Frako 1. Buz cited wrong message pertaining evidence, etc. Buz be back ASAP to resume debate due to other more pertinent matters at hand. In the mean time all should have a look at the following messages, pertaining to evidence of Jehovah, etc.

Message 37 Message 38 Message 39 Message 40


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

Someone wisely said something ;ike, "Before fooling with a fool, make sure the fool is a fool." :)


  
AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 52 of 318 (660261)
04-23-2012 3:38 AM


Topic Please!
Participants,

Please reread the Message 1. For the sake of this discussion, God exists.

I don't believe in God personally but for the sake of discussion, I will concede that he does exist for the simple fact how can there be any kind of in-depth discussion on God if we are still arguing weather God exists or not.

Define: to determine or identify the essential qualities or meaning of (whatever defines us as human).

The originator isn't referring to multiple gods, he is referring to the Judeo/Christian god. Message 12

Please adjust accordingly.

Thanks
AdminPD


Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by frako, posted 04-23-2012 7:36 AM AdminPD has responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2813
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


(1)
Message 53 of 318 (660267)
04-23-2012 7:36 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by AdminPD
04-23-2012 3:38 AM


Re: Topic Please!
. For the sake of this discussion, God exists.

Ok say that a god like being exists, using bronze agescriptures to describe a beinglike that is unreliable because we now know that many if not all the things god or gods are doing like making it rain is simply not true.

So lets try to describe him/them from what we know.
They are not responsible for weather.
They are not responsible for earthquakes.
they are not responsible for making you sick.
they do not make you well again.
They did not make life in its current form, they do not evolve things.
They are either not on this planet or they are invisible, untouchable, undetectable, just like the pet dragon i have in my garage.
They do not win wares
They do not change the seasons
They do not make vulcanos erupt
They do not make the sun cross the sky or the moon
They do not make children
They do not throw lighting
....
...

So a god is a being that does not do all that and more


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

Click if you dare!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by AdminPD, posted 04-23-2012 3:38 AM AdminPD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by AdminPD, posted 04-23-2012 8:31 AM frako has not yet responded

    
AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 54 of 318 (660268)
04-23-2012 8:31 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by frako
04-23-2012 7:36 AM


Re: Topic Please!
Pay attention to the OP and what it means to define something.

Define: to determine or identify the essential qualities or meaning of (whatever defines us as human).

The originator wants those who believe in the Judeo/Christian God to define their god. For the purpose of this discussion that god exists.

This is the Faith and Belief forum. Leave the discussion if you can't stick to the parameters.

Any complaints, take it to the General Discussion Of Moderation Procedures (aka 'The Whine List').

Thanks
AdminPD


This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by frako, posted 04-23-2012 7:36 AM frako has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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Straggler
Member
Posts: 10284
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 55 of 318 (660335)
04-24-2012 6:56 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by AdminPD
04-23-2012 8:31 AM


Re: Topic Please!
OK. So e are trying to define the Judeo-Christian God specifically. Right?

Well if you take the Old Testament literally then God is the "petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, genocidal, capriciously malevolent bully" that Dawkins talks about.

If you don't take the OT literally then I guess you can pick and choose which type of God you want. Based on the New Testament you could argue a relatively positive God. This God will probably be:

1) The father of Christ (who is himself God)
2) Forgiving
3) Compassionate
4) The source of love
5) The source of all things good (the source of badness and hate is who...?)
6) Whatever the more enlightened members of the Christian faith decide

Or something like that...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by AdminPD, posted 04-23-2012 8:31 AM AdminPD has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 12033
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 56 of 318 (667473)
07-07-2012 9:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by 2ndReign
10-03-2010 1:24 AM


If Intelligence Exists....
quote:
don't believe in God personally but for the sake of discussion, I will concede that he does exist for the simple fact how can there be any kind of in-depth discussion on God if we are still arguing weather God exists or not.

Here is an argument. IF intelligence exists, I propose that it is logical for a supreme intelligence to exist. It makes no sense to me that the universe basically evolves by sheer chance and then compresses back in on itself to start over infinitely. That makes no sense.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by 2ndReign, posted 10-03-2010 1:24 AM 2ndReign has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-07-2012 10:17 PM Phat has responded
 Message 64 by ringo, posted 07-09-2012 3:19 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16083
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 57 of 318 (667474)
07-07-2012 10:17 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Phat
07-07-2012 9:53 PM


Re: If Intelligence Exists....
Here is an argument. IF intelligence exists, I propose that it is logical for a supreme intelligence to exist.

Yes ... but what if it's me?

I guess someone must be most intelligent, but why must someone be infinitely intelligent?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Phat, posted 07-07-2012 9:53 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Phat, posted 07-09-2012 12:50 PM Dr Adequate has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 12033
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 58 of 318 (667546)
07-09-2012 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by Dr Adequate
07-07-2012 10:17 PM


Re: If Intelligence Exists....
Dr.Adequate writes:

I guess someone must be most intelligent, but why must someone be infinitely intelligent?

Good point. The inference is on a Creator, and we would like for such a Being(if it exists) to be well qualified in order to create a universe and be capable of knowing every living thing intimately. Infinity is a preferred characteristic of such a Being.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-07-2012 10:17 PM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-09-2012 1:20 PM Phat has responded
 Message 66 by 1.61803, posted 07-09-2012 4:43 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16083
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 59 of 318 (667549)
07-09-2012 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Phat
07-09-2012 12:50 PM


Re: If Intelligence Exists....
Good point. The inference is on a Creator, and we would like for such a Being(if it exists) to be well qualified in order to create a universe and be capable of knowing every living thing intimately. Infinity is a preferred characteristic of such a Being.

It's what we'd prefer, yes. And if wishes were deities ...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Phat, posted 07-09-2012 12:50 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by Phat, posted 07-09-2012 1:27 PM Dr Adequate has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 12033
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 60 of 318 (667550)
07-09-2012 1:27 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Dr Adequate
07-09-2012 1:20 PM


Re: If Intelligence Exists....
are you implying that GOD, if God exists, is radically different from what we likely would prefer?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-09-2012 1:20 PM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by jar, posted 07-09-2012 1:40 PM Phat has responded
 Message 65 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-09-2012 4:37 PM Phat has responded

  
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