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Author Topic:   Is God good?
frako
Member (Idle past 327 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 1 of 722 (660574)
04-27-2012 7:01 AM


For the purpose of this topic the Christian god exists and the bible is 100% accurate.
some examples
Exodus
The Israelites get in to Egypt because of a famine they get enslaved .... Moses comes along and god sends 10 punishments because the PHARAOH does not let the Israelites go free.
1. Water to blood
2. frogs
3. Lice
4. Flies
5. Livestock desiesed
6. Boils
7. Thunder hail
8. Locusts
9. Darkness
10. Death of first-borns
Now exempt from harm from these plagues where obviously the Israelites, but the Pharaoh was also exempt from harm the actual guy who said no had nothing happen to him, His inocent child got killed and the innocent children of the land of Egypt the people of Egypt suffered but the man who said no and angered god got of scot free.
The Israelites went out of Egypt then god split the waters so they could pass had a pillar of fire standing so the Egyptians could not follow then removed the pillar when the Israelites where safe on the other side knowing that Pharaohs armies would follow then he drowned them.
The Israelites after 40 years came to the promise land. Filled with other civilisations gods orders where, to utterly destroy them make no covenant with them and show them no mercy, when it came to the amalecs he ordered to kill everything man women babe sucking unborn, donkeys camels .... On his way to the amalecs Saul met the Kenites urging them to flee what did god pleased with Sauls mercy? No he wasent. When Saul decided not to kill the animals but use them to feed his people was god pleased wit his charity? NO
god rejected him as king to please his god he braught the king AGAG and hacked him to pieces before the lord.
Are this the action of a Good being?
Example 2:
David who married Batshiba, against the wishes of god how did god punish David? God said since you have sinned me THE CHILD WILL DIE. an innocent child again. And was this child to die suddenly and painlessly no for 7 days he suffered. How can a good being punish an innocent child?
What about the flood?
What did the people do to warent such genocide such slaughter what did the children do? what did the sucklings do? what did the babes in their mothers wombs do? Is the flood an action of a good and just good?

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Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by jar, posted 04-27-2012 9:43 AM frako has not replied
 Message 4 by 1.61803, posted 04-27-2012 10:22 AM frako has not replied
 Message 14 by mike the wiz, posted 05-03-2012 2:58 PM frako has replied
 Message 63 by kofh2u, posted 11-28-2012 8:35 PM frako has not replied
 Message 71 by Adminnemooseus, posted 11-29-2012 10:19 PM frako has not replied
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frako
Member (Idle past 327 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 6 of 722 (660658)
04-28-2012 6:34 AM


Dang was hoping for some rants about how dare i question the goodness of god and stuff, and some examples to show me how good he actually is.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
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Replies to this message:
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 Message 9 by GDR, posted 04-28-2012 5:31 PM frako has not replied
 Message 37 by Larni, posted 11-25-2012 11:16 AM frako has not replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 327 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 15 of 722 (661262)
05-03-2012 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by mike the wiz
05-03-2012 2:58 PM


The problem is one of relativity.
Given this knowledge, there is only one relevant logical question to be asked; Which person's "good" is the real GOOD?. Is it Pete and his friends in group X? Or is it James and his friends in group Z? Or is it some other view?
If you are atheist and believe in relative morality, then you can't state that even though there is no ultimate morality, our God is ultimately morally bad.
Atheist Syllogism;
-There is no ULTIMATE right and wrong.
-Pete has morals X and judges God to be "wrong" or "bad" in his own book;
ERGO he concludes that God is ULTIMATELY bad and wrong.
The error is that of the law of none-contradiction. You are saying that God is ultimately bad and yet there is nothing ultimately bad.
It just doesn't work - it takes denial to pretend to yourselves that this works.
You see, only if you are ultimately morally perfect can you state that you have the say when it comes to ultimate reality. If you as Frako-none-believer have the keys to righteousness, then do share! do your morals stop you from sinning? Are you an example? Have you never lied or insulted, or even been angry and thought about angry things? Have you ever held a grudge or retaliated or spoken evil?
Our God lives in a holy place, we are told by scripture. We believe heaven, where He resides, is a place of holy perfection, a place where there is ultimately no lying or stealing or killing, therefore we have chosen in our lives to believe and trust the one who speaks from this position. It is these scriptures that describe God, which we hold as comments pertaining to God, such as, "God is light, and in Him there is no darkness at all". We TRUST and have FAITH that such scriptures are true, so we are not going to make foolish and self-righteous politically correct assertions about God, who we are told, is unfathomably great.
If you knew God this way, then you would have no reason to look into the scriptures in this narrow-minded way. It is because you do not know God, that you can't understand.
An unfathomably grate guy who kills kids, grate i dint know it was a good thing to kill kids il start killing some right away, so i might become
ight, and in Him there is no darkness at all
You see, that's an example of what you see from reading the text. You've chosen one strict way of interpreting scripture based on the position of mortality and individual rights, morals that are only fashionably new morals, modern morals that have arrived in the last few decades or so.
This is YOUR take on it, as a certain type of person, a certain group, whether your group is a minority or a majority, it is a subjective conclusion, even an ODD conclusion, trying to filter God through the human-rights system, Lol.
That's not how the bible describes God. God is gravity, that is how you should see Him.
Sure you can argue against gravity, you can say it is evil, you can even jump off a cliff in protest, but ultimately, gravity will have your ass splat.
It's the same with God - to judge God is only always error and misunderstanding. Why? Because we are told that God's understanding is unfathomable. Of course you do not understand His actions, because you do not have even 1% of His knowledge. Could you create a DNA? Could you come up with a contraflow lung?
"Trust in the Lord, and lean not on your own understanding".
Your moral conclusions about God are definitely important to you and those who share your modern morals. Soon those morals will change, maybe in a decade or so, you will not dare accuse God because in a decade it might be bible-phobic and immoral to say things bad about the bible. But those of us who trust the Lord and know Him, and how He truly is, we will still have a foundation that has not changed.
Well no i can build a plane and fly of from this gravity. But can you really say a truly grate and wonderful loving god kills people. or is there something wrong with that sentence.
If it is 100% accurate, even for the topic, then LOGICALLY, you have came to a non sequitur by saying God is no good, because christ said, "there is only one who is good, that being God".
So if the bible is 100% accurate, then it would mean that when you believe in 100% of the bible, you are obviously not going to come to the conclusion that God is not good, because many scriptures tell us that He is the source of all good.
If we as genuine believers in the 100% bible believe in all of the scriptures, then how can we come to a conclusion that God is bad, based on a biblical event that took place rather than a biblical teaching?
So it's how you think that is what counts isn't it? If we take the 100% bible, then "God is light and in Him is no darkness whatsoever" therefore if you find a troublesome text that puts God in a bad light, you have to then ask some questions such as, "then what does this text really mean, and if God is not bad, is there something I myself have not understood?"
I think it's usually an excellent question because nearly always is the bible seen as saying something bad against God when in fact He can have a greater purpose. Remember, He is acting in a system which is already a mess, therefore His intentions can't always be clear.
In an imperfect system, good actions can be seen as bad actions, for example, if a man steals food, but he is stealing it to feed his starving child, then he has a good motivation, but his actions don't seem good. It is wise to then ponder what God's motivations are, in an imperfect system. His actions can be misunderstood, even though He has a just motivation, or He has a secret knowledge, and He knows it will turn out for the good, overall.
I don't think people like you actually think about these things. Perhaps you don't realise that there are people who really do believe in what the bible says, so when it says that God is our only hope, we believe it, and we don't play little-god, by letting our opinions become god.
The controversially, inconceivably, incontrovertibly, irrefutably immutable one hath spoken!
Yea sure. I think the word good just got its meaning replaced with evil over the centuries the book would make much more sense if you swap the words.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
Click if you dare!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by mike the wiz, posted 05-03-2012 2:58 PM mike the wiz has not replied

  
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