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Author Topic:   New Tennessee Monkey Law!
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 31 of 126 (659018)
04-11-2012 7:42 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by dwise1
04-11-2012 12:13 PM


Rather, this law is intended to provide a back-door to bring creationism into the classroom.
Yes, and expect a next step to be insertion of fake science and faux-facts into biology, astronomy, and possibly even history text books (Viriginia already does the latter). Expect to see similar materials mandated into state school curricula in Tennessee.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by dwise1, posted 04-11-2012 12:13 PM dwise1 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by frako, posted 04-12-2012 5:04 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 32 of 126 (659035)
04-12-2012 4:09 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Jon
04-11-2012 6:55 PM


Re: teachers
guess it must be location, then. The highschool I went to had a very knowledgeable set of teachers, with the older ones generally having a better grasp on their subject matter. My chemistry teacher, for example, really did know chemistry and I honestly cannot see how anyone could have taught the material he taught without knowing it at a rather deep level.
This was the case for my high school teachers in Georgia. My high school teachers really did know chemistry and physics. I don't remember the older teachers being the most knowledgeable. However, I don't believe that the science teachers I had prior to 9th grade were particularly good at science. And in fact, I can recall two or three particularly inept ones. My eighth grade science teacher was much better at coaching football than teaching science.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Jon, posted 04-11-2012 6:55 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Jon, posted 04-12-2012 9:02 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 39 of 126 (659218)
04-13-2012 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Taz
04-12-2012 11:37 PM


This is precisely why I've always advocated we sectionalize society, politics, everything according to their respective field of discipline. For example, let engineers dictate policies regarding engineering research and standards.
That would seem to make sense, but it is unworkable. For example, when the climatologists tell the engineers to stop burning carbon or our children will have to grow gills, and the engineers point out that burning carbon is the only possible way to supply society's energy needs, then who wins?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Taz, posted 04-12-2012 11:37 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Taz, posted 04-13-2012 1:40 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 42 of 126 (659284)
04-14-2012 6:51 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by Taz
04-13-2012 1:40 PM


Engineers are also dumbasses. They know that burning carbon won't last forever. Eventually, fossil fuel runs out.
I'm guessing you left out a "not" in the above.
So you believe everything you hear from Exxon and BP about energy policy? I don't.
Then they work out a solution together.
It will be impossible for them to implement a solution without involving economic and political concerns. For example it might be best to allow cars to continue to use fossil fuels while cutting back on the use of fossil fuels in non-moving applications. But then we have to get people to buy into alternative ways of heating their homes and businesses, providing lighting, cooking etc. And those alternative ways may be more expensive. Do we then prop up the people who cannot afford more expensive energy, or do we scrap the whole idea?
Of course since you want to leave the common people out of things, then whatever the solution, the government is just going to have mandate things and the people are going to have to do what they are told by the experts.
I don't find such a system feasible. The current representative government system is supposed to approximate a system where the real experts solve the problems. We vote for politicians who have the full time job of seeking out an evaluating the science uncovered by the experts. They are supposed to make informed decisions regarding things using real science for us. If those solutions are not working, we vote the representatives out of office.
The real problem, in my view, is that the representatives don't give a hoot about the science. They either don't believe, or won't acknowledge any science or scientists that disagrees with their idiot voters or self centered lobbyists. And the money now flowing around the election process is exacerbating things.
Perhaps we should stop electing lawyers and political science folk who haven't had a real science course since high school and start electing more scientists and engineers.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Taz, posted 04-13-2012 1:40 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by subbie, posted 04-14-2012 11:23 AM NoNukes has replied
 Message 44 by Taz, posted 04-14-2012 11:25 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 46 of 126 (659335)
04-15-2012 9:07 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by Taz
04-14-2012 11:25 PM


Your entire argument rests on a single assumption, that the majority of the people know what's best for them and others. Before I go on, please read this article
No, Taz. I don't assume that. I don't even believe it to be true. I seem to recall having this discussion with you at a previous time.
What is supposed to happen is that the people elect representatives who are smarter than average bear and that have the leisure time to do the research that the typical citizen will never be able to understand. I expect politicians to sell those solutions to the public, when the need arises. I've also acknowledged that the system is broken and does not work as it should.
The alternative you propose to give the people no say and to dictate solutions to them. I don't want to live in a place where we do things that way.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Taz, posted 04-14-2012 11:25 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by Taz, posted 04-15-2012 11:17 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 47 of 126 (659336)
04-15-2012 9:09 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by subbie
04-14-2012 11:23 AM


No, we need to stop electing pandering idiots who couldn't care less about genuine public policy concerns
Yes. That too.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by subbie, posted 04-14-2012 11:23 AM subbie has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 50 of 126 (659362)
04-15-2012 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by Taz
04-15-2012 11:17 AM


No, I didn't. I never proposed this. What I said was we still elect officials to certain positions based on their qualitifications.
I don't recall you saying anything about electing any scientists and engineers. Instead you simply said that politicians would not make scientific decisions.
At any rate, I don't even think that proposal is workable. Exactly how many people do you think we ought to elect. It should be a perfectly viable solution for economists, scientists, engineeers, etc. to be staff positions or agency positions as long as the advice they give is heeded.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Taz, posted 04-15-2012 11:17 AM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Taz, posted 04-15-2012 7:38 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 114 of 126 (660660)
04-28-2012 6:42 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by subbie
04-27-2012 3:33 PM


It passed, the gutless governor didn't veto it, but didn't sign it either. Thus, he stands firmly astride the fence.
I don't think not vetoing the bill was gutless. The bill was passed by a 3:1 margin in the legislature, making a veto quixotic.
However the governor could have made some stronger statements regarding the impact of the bill. Instead he spouted thusly (gutlessly):
quote:
I do not believe that this legislation changes the scientific standards that are taught in our schools or the curriculum that is used by our teachers. However, I also don’t believe that it accomplishes anything that isn’t already acceptable in our schools. The bill received strong bipartisan support, passing the House and Senate by a three-to-one margin, but good legislation should bring clarity and not confusion. My concern is that this bill has not met this objective. For that reason, I will not sign the bill but will allow it to become law without my signature.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by subbie, posted 04-27-2012 3:33 PM subbie has seen this message but not replied

  
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