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Author Topic:   Nature belongs to ID
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 146 (661518)
05-07-2012 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Vanessa
05-06-2012 12:38 PM


Evidence for ID?
I was impressed with the level of scientific evidence supporting ID.

I'd really like to hear more about this. I don't believe there is any such evidence, but I'm quite often wrong.

even the evolution of life is a arbitrary - mutations (accidents) in DNA provide the fuel by which natural selection steers the course of evolution.

I find the dichotomy you are expressing here to be a bit baffling. If Intelligent Design is in opposition to Naturalism as it is explained here, then there must be some guiding designer that steers the evolution or development of life. How is that not religious? Is it simply because the designer is unnamed? Surely that position cannot be considered credible?

If ID is to succeeds it must lay claim Nature

What would constitute a success for ID?


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Vanessa, posted 05-06-2012 12:38 PM Vanessa has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Vanessa, posted 05-07-2012 6:18 PM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 37 of 146 (661658)
05-09-2012 4:44 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Rahvin
05-08-2012 12:14 PM


utations are guided, simply not by an intelligent external actor. Mutations are dependent on the laws of chemistry - genes don't just randomly self-assemble in totally random patterns from a random soup of base elements (even a totally random soup of base elements would still react in predictable ways;

I don't think it is helpful to use the term "guided" in this way. It is true that there are physical/chemical limits on the mutations that can occur, but that is not the same as guiding. Calling these limitations guidance simply plays into other goofy speculations in an unnecessary way.

Further, I don't see any sense in which we ought to say that natural selection guides mutation. Selection determines the distribution of variation in a population, but the mutations themselves are occur randomly with respect to fitness.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison


This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Rahvin, posted 05-08-2012 12:14 PM Rahvin has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 60 of 146 (661801)
05-10-2012 10:04 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Vanessa
05-07-2012 6:18 PM


Re: Evidence for ID?
I don't know whether you are being serious when you say you don't believe there is any evidence supporting ID. Do you mean you are not persuaded by the evidence you've researched or simply that you've never looked? I believe you're being facetious, forgive me if I am wrong

I'm quite serious. What I mean is that ID has been discussed here any number of times, and I haven't seen any evidence supporting ID. I have not done my own research. But since you spent five days hearing evidence, I thought I would ask you to share.

My definition of evidence is putative facts, which if established, make it more likely that a given proposition is true, than if the putative facts are established not to be actually factual. So facts that are merely consistent with ID among other things such as the theory of evolution, would not be evidence for ID.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison


This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Vanessa, posted 05-07-2012 6:18 PM Vanessa has not yet responded

  
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