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Author Topic:   radical liberals (aka liberal commies) vs ultra conservatives (aka nutjobs)
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4145 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 237 of 300 (661728)
05-09-2012 5:17 PM
Reply to: Message 234 by Panda
05-09-2012 4:06 PM


Re: A statist by any other name...
Let's start with the first word and work from there.
Inalienable: Unable to be taken away from or given away by the possessor.
So - tell me again about how these inalienable human rights are taken away....
Just wondering what a inalienable human right is, got any examples?
I can't imagine a right that couldn't be taken away under certain circumstances.

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by Panda, posted 05-09-2012 4:06 PM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 239 by Taq, posted 05-09-2012 5:20 PM fearandloathing has replied
 Message 240 by Panda, posted 05-09-2012 5:22 PM fearandloathing has seen this message but not replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4145 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 242 of 300 (661735)
05-09-2012 5:35 PM
Reply to: Message 239 by Taq
05-09-2012 5:20 PM


Re: A statist by any other name...
Ok , I see what you are saying. Thanks, I must start at the beginning of this topic.

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 239 by Taq, posted 05-09-2012 5:20 PM Taq has not replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4145 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 249 of 300 (661746)
05-09-2012 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 239 by Taq
05-09-2012 5:20 PM


Re: A statist by any other name...
quote:
Enhanced interrogation techniques or alternative set of procedures are terms that describe a George W. Bush administration authorization and use of certain severe interrogation methods including hypothermia, stress positions and waterboarding. These techniques were used by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and the Department of Defense (DoD) in secret prisons, the Guantanamo Bay detention camps and Abu Ghraib on untold thousands of prisoners[1] after the September 11 attacks in 2001 including notably Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, Abu Zubaydah and Mohammed al-Qahtani.
Enhanced interrogation techniques - Wikipedia
I may be a little slow but it seems to me that when your nations leaders allow certain forms or torture, then the people being tortured have had the right not to be tortured taken away.
How does a human right become inalienable? What is the criteria? If our leaders say they have a right to torture certain people then who is to say they are wrong. The UN?

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 239 by Taq, posted 05-09-2012 5:20 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 252 by Taq, posted 05-09-2012 7:11 PM fearandloathing has replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4145 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 254 of 300 (661765)
05-09-2012 8:08 PM
Reply to: Message 252 by Taq
05-09-2012 7:11 PM


It seems to me that until there is some global/universal agreement of what is and isn't a human right then we cannot say that it is inalienable. There are many countries that are not members of the UN, there are more countries who have no regard for the Geneva Convention.
This is a complicated subject.
In the world we live in today who is the authority?

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by Taq, posted 05-09-2012 7:11 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 256 by Taq, posted 05-09-2012 8:18 PM fearandloathing has replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4145 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 257 of 300 (661770)
05-09-2012 8:37 PM
Reply to: Message 256 by Taq
05-09-2012 8:18 PM


From all I have seen so far it seems to be a matter of opinion. I don't believe in any type of torture, but that is just my belief. There is a segment of the population of this world who cheers when an infidel gets beheaded....Not every one agrees on what is right or wrong.
I can't see a logical conclusion to this topic.

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by Taq, posted 05-09-2012 8:18 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 261 by Taq, posted 05-10-2012 6:01 PM fearandloathing has replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4145 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 263 of 300 (661874)
05-10-2012 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 261 by Taq
05-10-2012 6:01 PM


The logic is based on the Golden Rule. Would you like it if someone stole your car? If not, then you should not steal someone else's car. The logic is based on our ability to determine what causes pain in others
I mostly agree with you.
The golden rule does have shortcomings. Your idea of what is right for you may not mesh with what I feel is right for me, I think this is old ground that has been covered.
I could be wrong but it seems empathy was probably why we have the golden rule.

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by Taq, posted 05-10-2012 6:01 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 264 by NoNukes, posted 05-10-2012 9:42 PM fearandloathing has replied
 Message 267 by Taq, posted 05-11-2012 11:11 AM fearandloathing has seen this message but not replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4145 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 265 of 300 (661928)
05-10-2012 10:55 PM
Reply to: Message 264 by NoNukes
05-10-2012 9:42 PM


Jesus said that we were to love our neighbor as we love ourselves. Understood properly that commandment would not mean merely doing unto others what we ourselves would want, but would mean treating your neighbor with empathy for your neighbors feelings.
Funny how many times I have been criticized for my empathy to the plight of undocumented aliens. I have always felt that I can't knock a person for trying to get ahead, if I was in their shoes I might do the same thing. I am not talking about those who smuggle drugs ect.... but the people who come here to work....But it seems the golden rule does not apply to them.... especially if you live in certain areas of the southwest....Arizona maybe

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 264 by NoNukes, posted 05-10-2012 9:42 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 266 by NoNukes, posted 05-10-2012 11:44 PM fearandloathing has seen this message but not replied

  
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