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Author | Topic: Let's face it... | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
redstang281 Inactive Member |
Sex was ment to be an emotionally attaching event designed to bond two people together (a man and a woman.) However when people use it just to forfill a lustfull desire it loosing it's meaning until the whole point of a relationship looses it's meaning. I believe this is why God created STD's - to punish those who abuse his gift of sex.
[This message has been edited by redstang281, 12-11-2001]
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redstang281 Inactive Member |
""Oh that was nice of him. Ima sure that's a huge consolation to the children born with aids "heh I may be well and truly buggered but at least I know that God punished my parents for adultery...""
Come to mention it what about the faithful spouse who contracts something nasty because their partner strayed? They didn't do any wrong but they get punished anyway....Hmmmmm... Mate your talking out of your arse, two of the qualities you religious buggers claim for the big fellow are Omnicogniscience (all knowing) and omnibenevolence (all caring). I'm sure you see the logical problem with insisting that such a God createdSTDs......" I'm not judging you on the courses of your life as I am sure I have followed some that I regret. God cursed man when man sinned. When man judges God, God does not always fit the definition of fair, but it is not in our place to judge God. He has a reason for doing everything that he does. In everyone's life bad things are going to happen, just as good things will. The bad things will always be attributed to Adam and Eve's sinning which is a perfect example of everyone in the human race. The bible says no one is innocent of sin. So when you say "this person didn't do anything wrong" that is not true from a Christian perspective. Most atheist make the mistake of assuming the bible is trying to say that God makes life perfect(no disease, no pain.. etc.) While it is true that God did make life perfect in the beginning, man destroyed that perfection. What the bible is saying is that heaven is perfect, all things residing in heaven are perfect, and the only way that an imperfect man can get into heaven is through the perfect savior Jesus Christ. "Oh and make use of the spell checker before posting please.... " Is this an attempt to intimidate me through my spelling mistakes and make me feel less intelligent? Please don't resort to that level. I'm not attacking you, just explaining things from a Christian perspective. I would hope that you would appreciate my replies.
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redstang281 Inactive Member |
Oh and Given that:
a)My relationship with my wife started with a drunken one night stand. b)3 years later we are happily married your assertion that "whole point of a relationship looses it's meaning." can presumably be discarded unless it is for the special case where the whole relationship is based on sexual tension anyway..... In which case having sex early in a relationship is a good thing as it will expose purely physical attractions for what they are.... I believe it is better to focus sex on the relationship instead of the relationship on sex. I believe sex is supposed to compliment the relationship and be a special thing that you can share only with your partner. Some people have focus so much on the sexual side that they have given up completely on the relationship side. Those people then move from person to person without care of who they are but only the gratification they receive. I believe the reason for God's law against adultery is both to protect us from the STD's, the repercussions(to children of cheating parents) and also to help us receive his gift of a sex. Many would agree that sex is much more rewarding when it is with someone who knows and loves you. I believe this is how God intended sex to be.
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redstang281 Inactive Member |
"Im sorry but arguing that an unborn child has already sinned and deserves to be born with aids isnt terribly convincing as evidence of an omnibenevolent big fella...."
The world is no longer perfect. That is because of man, not because of God. "I hope you asked Santa for some thicker skin....." I probably should ask Santa, because evolution won't help. Sorry, low blow I know
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redstang281 Inactive Member |
quote: I'm sorry but I consider God more of an authority than yourself. God said sex is his gift to a married couple. For those who choose to abuse this gift there is std's. Before the fall of man there was no sin (or degeneration.) Animals didn't kill each other for food, there were no thorn bushes, and most likely no std's. This was something the bible says came about after man's sin. If you consider the fact that two people who withdraw from sexual attivity until marriage and then are faithful to one another it becomes apparent that my theory is true. As for a husband who gets aids from a cheating wife, maybe God is paying him back for some other sin he commited earlier. I believe it is intirely possible that we are not always punished emmidiatly after we sin. But that being said still I must erge you to understand this basic fundamentalist christian understanding that we are all sinners!! Even when we are born. The sin that Adam commited is carried down through all his generations. Therefor no one is innocent. God did not create evil. Even though God has control over everything, God did not make lucifer's rebellion against him. It does not seem logical but that's because we can't understand it. God actions are not limited to our comprehension. A contradiction to us is comprehension to him.
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redstang281 Inactive Member |
quote: Unborn children did fall. The biblical account of Adam eating the apple when God specifically told him not to is the example to illustrated that man by nature can not obey God's rules. Sense we all came from Adam we all carry his sin with us. Just as anyone of us would have eating that apple if we would have been in the same situation. Jesus died for our sins so that we can enter heaven, not so that the world could become perfect again. Yes, God is hard to please. God is impossible for man to please. EVERYONE falls short of God's commandments and each one of those is a sin. Jesus did for the sin you committed, are committing currently, and the sin you destined to commit. For nothing can enter heaven that is not pure, but God with God anything is possible so Jesus is the path God gives us to take.
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redstang281 Inactive Member |
quote: Yes. But only God himself is capable of following them. Jesus followed all the rules during his life. b)If there is I suggest it is possible to follow the rules and not sin. [/QUOTE] Only God can follow the rules. c)If this is the case I stipulate that if there is free will we are not sinners until we ourselves have sinned. d)In which case an unborn child is not a sinner or there is no free will. So which is it to be original sin or free will? One of them needs to be voted off the island.... [/QUOTE] Because God knows the future doesn't mean he controls it. You can plant a grass seed and know that it will only grow up grass and not a palm tree because you know the nature of the seed. [This message has been edited by redstang281, 12-12-2001]
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redstang281 Inactive Member |
quote: Because you can not jump to the moon does that mean you do not have free will? It just means you are incapable of jumping to the moon. Just as man is incapable of not sinning but still has free will.
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redstang281 Inactive Member |
quote: The analogy meant with his own two feet. Geez!! Give me a break here. I will say again, and I will say it over and over again if I have to, I believe in free will AND original sin. Because God set the standard of rules only on his attainability, it is impossible for a mortal man to comply with each rule. And the sin of Adam weighs upon all of our shoulders. [This message has been edited by redstang281, 12-12-2001]
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redstang281 Inactive Member |
quote: Adam eating the apple was an example to God. It showed him the nature of man. We all came from Adam and are made of the same makeup as he. Maybe you wouldn't eat the apple, but you would do something else that is forbid.
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redstang281 Inactive Member |
quote: Having a limit to what you can do does not mean you have no free will. Because you can not grow to be 20 feet tall doesn't mean you don't have free will. You have free will to attempt the impossible, but that doesn't mean you can obtain the impossible.
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redstang281 Inactive Member |
quote: This is you putting human qualities into God. If you or I created something than yes we should know everything about it. But when God creates something he is certainly capible of making it's nature unknown to him if he chooses. Or, it's also feasible that God did know our nature when he created us, and our redemtion through Jesus Christ was his elaborate plan for us that he knew all along. As far as you stand I reserve judgement because I myself am fallible as well (through no suprise to you I am sure [b] [QUOTE]
2/ For the third time....... "I put it to you again, if Gods fairness in blaming ALL of us for Adams naughtyness is righteous. Then would you consent to a term of incarceration for someone elses crime? Say 15 years, followed by the chair? Knowing full well that the judge & jury knew you never committed the crime at all." Mark[/b] [/QUOTE] If they were putting me on trial for a specific action that I didn't commit, then no it's not fair. But if they are putting me on trail for me being human and making mistakes than I would have to say I'm guilty. Yes the apple that adam ate was a specific action, but that showed God that man can not be trusted. God can judge us all based on that one action of Adam. And it is an accurate judgement or else we wouldn't have the expression "we're only human, we make mistakes."
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redstang281 Inactive Member |
quote: Oh man can always try to live without sin. We're supposed to try. But what we have to realize is we can't make it. So that's where Jesus comes in.
[b] [QUOTE]
I can make an honest effort to discover surgical, genetic manipulation techniques to achieve the end of growing to be 20 ft tall...[/b][/QUOTE] Right.... Even if it were possible, you'd be good at basketball but still wouldn't get around the other end of my analogy.
[b] [QUOTE]
I may fail in both cases the difference is that there is a possible solution that involves the achievement of my aims in the second case, a solution that is missing assuming your original sin constraint of free will....[/b][/QUOTE] Free will gives us the ability to do whatever is humanly possibly. I will forever retain the elementary knowledge that everyone makes mistakes(or sins.) And everyone knows it's impossible not to ever make a mistake.
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redstang281 Inactive Member |
quote: Very good. Actually it says fruit, but the common idea is it was an apple, so I said apple.
[b] [QUOTE]
How could Adam (working within the myth) know if it was right or wrong before he ate from the "fruit of the knowledge of good and evil"?[/b][/QUOTE] The bible says God told him not to eat from that tree.
[b] [QUOTE]
If people are still sinners, as you state, then how can they enter heaven, since you also state that nothing impure can enter heaven?[/b][/QUOTE] Good question my friend. Jesus died for our sins and through praying to Jesus that you know you sin(make mistakes against God's word) and asking for forgiveness you may enter heaven through his suffering. For nothing may exist in heaven that includes sin and the only to be cleared of sin is through Jesus.
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redstang281 Inactive Member |
quote: No, if the death penalty was for being human then yes that would be a fair judge of me(or anyone.)
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