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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Creationist Shortage

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Author Topic:   Creationist Shortage
shadow71
Member (Idle past 3045 days)
Posts: 706
From: Joliet, il, USA
Joined: 08-31-2010


Message 76 of 415 (662023)
05-11-2012 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by shadow71
05-11-2012 2:02 PM


Re: Who Takes Who Seriously
shadow71 writes:
I do want to say that Taz and Wounded King and a few others will acknowledge good scientific points, but they are in the minority.
I meant TAQ not Taz. Sorry.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by shadow71, posted 05-11-2012 2:02 PM shadow71 has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 77 of 415 (662045)
05-11-2012 6:47 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by subbie
05-11-2012 4:20 PM


Re: Where Have Creationists Gone?
subbie writes:
It really is quite astonishing, isn't it? One cannot escape the feeling that not only does Buz not understand science talk, he doesn't even really have much of a grasp on plain English.
One cannot excape the feeling that resident evolutionists do not understand, or allow for creation science talk. Your bully pulpit site owner simply bans it from debate so as for it to stand or fall on it's own merits.
As for plain English, at times some you vindictive counterparts don't have it quite right either. When it comes to the meaning of the scientific term, evidence, you simply deny it all, including it's proper meaning.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
Someone wisely said something ;ike, "Before fooling with a fool, make sure the fool is a fool."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by subbie, posted 05-11-2012 4:20 PM subbie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by jar, posted 05-11-2012 6:49 PM Buzsaw has seen this message but not replied
 Message 87 by subbie, posted 05-11-2012 11:53 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 199 by Genomicus, posted 07-08-2012 7:29 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
(1)
Message 78 of 415 (662046)
05-11-2012 6:49 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Buzsaw
05-11-2012 6:47 PM


Re: Where Have Creationists Gone?
There is no such thing as 'Creation Science' and there could never be such a thing; it is an oxymoron.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Buzsaw, posted 05-11-2012 6:47 PM Buzsaw has seen this message but not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 79 of 415 (662048)
05-11-2012 6:55 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by frako
05-11-2012 4:38 PM


Re: Where Have Creationists Gone?
frako writes:
Well you know little or nothing how the prophets of Dephi corroborate the existence of Apollo a Greek god
LoL. If you think the alleged prophets of Dephi or anything supporting the existence of a Greek god is supported by evidence, you haven't a clue as to the mountains of evidence pertaining to the Biblical record and how scanty little there is to the Greek gods in comparison.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
Someone wisely said something ;ike, "Before fooling with a fool, make sure the fool is a fool."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by frako, posted 05-11-2012 4:38 PM frako has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by frako, posted 05-11-2012 7:11 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 417 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 80 of 415 (662051)
05-11-2012 7:11 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by Buzsaw
05-11-2012 6:55 PM


Re: Where Have Creationists Gone?
LoL. If you think the alleged prophets of Dephi or anything supporting the existence of a Greek god is supported by evidence, you haven't a clue as to the mountains of evidence pertaining to the Biblical record and how scanty little there is to the Greek gods in comparison.
No YOU havent got a clue, the mountain of evidence pertaining to the oracle of Delphi and their prophecies COMING TRUE out ways your whole bible, And that evidence does not only come from the Greeks other civilizations also wrote about the oracle of Delphi and their prophecies. So the god Apollo MUST BE REAL so worship him and maby you will see the Elisian fields or be dammed to Tartarus
hereuis a small list List of oracular statements from Delphi - Wikipedia

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
Click if you dare!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Buzsaw, posted 05-11-2012 6:55 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by Buzsaw, posted 05-11-2012 7:43 PM frako has not replied
 Message 90 by Buzsaw, posted 05-12-2012 7:49 AM frako has replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4046
Joined: 07-01-2005


Message 81 of 415 (662055)
05-11-2012 7:40 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by Buzsaw
05-11-2012 4:15 PM


Re: Creationist Shortage Solution.
Wow. There I was, being all nice and reasonable and polite, and I still get jeered from Buz? I actually ask your opinion rather than just lambasting you, and you still don't like it? Huh.
The solution is very simple. As NoNukes implied and as nearly 100% of evolutionists once voted, the solution is to allow Buzsaw to be Buzsaw in the common existing science forums as it was back in the good old days when the creo-evo debates were smokin.
Why are you making this about you? We aren't lacking you, Buz. We're lacking Creationists in general. Are you suggesting that allowing you, personally, re-admittance into the science forums would help us retain more Creationists?

The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.
- Francis Bacon
"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers
A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity. — Albert Camus
"...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of
variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the
outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." Barash, David 1995.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by Buzsaw, posted 05-11-2012 4:15 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 82 of 415 (662056)
05-11-2012 7:43 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by frako
05-11-2012 7:11 PM


Re: Where Have Creationists Gone?
frako writes:
hereuis a small list Not Found
LOL. Nothing whatsoever pertaining to our times as is with the Biblical record, such as the 2nd advent of the nation of Israel after 19 centuries of dispersion, etc. For that matter nothing near as imerically substantiated as the Biblical record.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
Someone wisely said something ;ike, "Before fooling with a fool, make sure the fool is a fool."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by frako, posted 05-11-2012 7:11 PM frako has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by jar, posted 05-11-2012 7:45 PM Buzsaw has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


(3)
(1)
Message 83 of 415 (662057)
05-11-2012 7:45 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by Buzsaw
05-11-2012 7:43 PM


Re: Where Have Creationists Gone?
You keep making that claim Buz but never provide the Chapter and Verse so we can see if there is such a prophecy and if it is in any way fulfilled.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Buzsaw, posted 05-11-2012 7:43 PM Buzsaw has seen this message but not replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 694 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


(3)
Message 84 of 415 (662065)
05-11-2012 10:55 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Dr Adequate
05-04-2012 3:13 PM


All of the creationists have gone because most of you act like jerks toward creationists. Why would any of us want to stick around and be treated like that? Most of all, we get tired of reading all of your guys crap. If I told you want I wanted to do to some of you guys after reading your posts, it would not only get me banned but would result in cops banging on my front door.
Edited by foreveryoung, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-04-2012 3:13 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by Panda, posted 05-11-2012 11:09 PM foreveryoung has replied
 Message 86 by NoNukes, posted 05-11-2012 11:31 PM foreveryoung has not replied
 Message 91 by Percy, posted 05-12-2012 8:28 AM foreveryoung has not replied
 Message 103 by nwr, posted 05-12-2012 2:34 PM foreveryoung has not replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3824 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(3)
Message 85 of 415 (662066)
05-11-2012 11:09 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by foreveryoung
05-11-2012 10:55 PM


foreveryoung writes:
If I told you want I wanted to do to some of you guys after reading your posts, it would not only get me banned but would result in cops banging on my front door.
Once again you show your true face: hatred and violence.

Tradition and heritage are all dead people's baggage. Stop carrying it!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by foreveryoung, posted 05-11-2012 10:55 PM foreveryoung has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by foreveryoung, posted 05-12-2012 10:13 PM Panda has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 86 of 415 (662068)
05-11-2012 11:31 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by foreveryoung
05-11-2012 10:55 PM


it would not only get me banned but would result in cops banging on my front door
I don't know how serious you are, but I did want to point out that one former poster here did manage to get himself arrested after repeatedly threatening people over the internet.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by foreveryoung, posted 05-11-2012 10:55 PM foreveryoung has not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1366 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


(4)
Message 87 of 415 (662070)
05-11-2012 11:53 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Buzsaw
05-11-2012 6:47 PM


Re: Where Have Creationists Gone?
Rahvin wrote a reasoned, dispassionate post describing one specific type of error that you frequently make here. He then asked you to suggest how this problem might be addressed.
You could have denied that he accurately described your posting history.
You could have asked him to provide more examples if you were unsure what he was talking about.
You could have acknowledged that you understood the problem and suggested possible solutions to it.
You did none of those things. You didn't even acknowledge the specific problem he addressed. Instead, you trotted out the tired old martyr routine, the same thing that you seem to say every time someone comments on your apparent inability to understand much of the language used here.
This strongly suggests that you didn't understand the points that Rahvin made. It would be quite simple for you to dispel this suggestion; respond to the points that Rahvin actually made, either in one of the fashions I mention above, or in some other way that might occur to you. But the worst thing to do to try to dispel the notion is talk about completely different issues that have nothing to do with what Rahvin wrote.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Buzsaw, posted 05-11-2012 6:47 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
DWIII
Member (Idle past 1864 days)
Posts: 72
From: United States
Joined: 06-30-2011


(2)
Message 88 of 415 (662071)
05-12-2012 2:25 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by shadow71
05-10-2012 2:35 PM


Re: CRISPRs redux
shadow71 writes:
Wounded King writes:
How can we have a debate when as a response all you do is post huge chunks of quote from other people instead of making a reasoned argument yourself? If you really want to debate CRISPRs I'm game, either in a new topic or in a great debate, but I want to debate with you not with a giant wall of text taken from various different papers, e.g. Message 735.
Citations are supposed to support your argument not be your argument.
I am not a scientist so I have to rely on papers etc to support my contentions.
Being a scientist or not being a scientist is quite irrelevant here; some are, and some are not (such as you and I). The issue here is what understanding of your own of the science you yourself can bring to the table.
For example when I brought to jury trial a medical malpractice case I had to rely on my experts explanation of what was wrong with the medical treatment and present that to the jury in the testimony of my experts and then in closing argument explain that to the jury. That is what I try to do on this board.
Unfortunately, your overt reliance on typical lawyer tactics do not and will not get you very far on this type of forum. That is the usual problem with advocates of pseudoscience: they think victory is achieved through swaying the lowest common denominator to their side at all costs. That's not scientific debate; that's just puerile politics.
But it gets quite annoying when all you get is silly combacks and not argument.
How sad for you, since juries seldom argue back.

DWIII

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by shadow71, posted 05-10-2012 2:35 PM shadow71 has replied

Replies to this message:
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Granny Magda
Member (Idle past 149 days)
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007


(1)
Message 89 of 415 (662078)
05-12-2012 7:05 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by shadow71
05-10-2012 2:35 PM


Re: CRISPRs redux
I am not a scientist so I have to rely on papers etc to support my contentions. If your logic. that one must know the science as a trained scientist before expressing support for his or her postion, then there is no room for debate by a layperson.
That's not what WK is saying. What he is saying is that it is useless for you to throw out snippets of scientific papers which you do not understand. It matters not a jot whether you are a qualified or practising scientist. It doesn't matter if you are an educated layperson. What matters is that you understand what you are talking about.
If you understand the subject then fine, go ahead and talk about it. If you understand what the scientists are saying, then go ahead and quote them. But the reality is that you don't understand the topics you bring up. Then you try to debate them with people who do understand those topics. This is a waste of time.
For example when I brought to jury trial a medical malpractice case I had to rely on my experts explanation of what was wrong with the medical treatment and present that to the jury in the testimony of my experts and then in closing argument explain that to the jury. That is what I try to do on this board.
This isn't a jury trial though. You have to debate for yourself. If you are incapable of forming a coherent position, then the proper thing to do is either a) educate yourself until you do have an understanding or b) stop talking and leave science to those who understand it. After all, how are you meant to know whether the papers you cite genuinely support your position or not if you don't understand them?
If you can't be bothered to educate yourself to the necessary level, that's fine. It's a tough subject after all and it would require a lot of effort. I certainly can't be bothered to put in the effort that would be required to completely understand this CRISPR system, it simply doesn't interest me that much. But then I don't go around telling the experts that they're wrong. I keep silent on topics that I don't understand. All that WK is telling is that you should raise your game so that you understand what you're talking about. If you cannot or will not do this, then silence is the only appropriate alternative.
But it gets quite annoying when all you get is silly combacks and not argument.
I can see how that would be annoying. I sympathise, genuinely. I understand that it must be frustrating to you. However, your frustration does not change the fact that you are pontificating on a subject that you do not understand. We see a lot of people, mainly creationists, on this board trying to discuss subjects that they plainly have no grasp of. Guess what? That's kind of annoying as well.
Mutate and Survive

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by shadow71, posted 05-10-2012 2:35 PM shadow71 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by shadow71, posted 05-12-2012 1:34 PM Granny Magda has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 90 of 415 (662083)
05-12-2012 7:49 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by frako
05-11-2012 7:11 PM


Re: Where Have Creationists Gone?
frako writes:
No YOU havent got a clue, the mountain of evidence pertaining to the oracle of Delphi and their prophecies COMING TRUE out ways your whole bible, And that evidence does not only come from the Greeks other civilizations also wrote about the oracle of Delphi and their prophecies. So the god Apollo MUST BE REAL so worship him and maby you will see the Elisian fields or be dammed to Tartarus
The Delphi Oracles ,as I alleged were no-where near as imperical or relative to our end times as the mountains of imperical Biblical prophesies. A comparison would be a Modle T Ford to a modern Alexis, etc. Many of the Delphi prophecies failed. Not so with those of the Bible, though the likes of Jar, et al fail to acknowledge any of them. To do so would make them, you, et al accountable to a higer power, i.e. the Biblical existing creator-god, Jehovah.
quote:
Croesus, king of Lydia beginning in 560 B.C., tested the oracles of the world to discover which gave the most accurate prophecies. He sent out emissaries to seven sites who were all to ask the oracles on the same day what the king was doing at that very moment. Croesus proclaimed the oracle at Delphi to be the most accurate, who correctly reported that the king was making a lamb-and-tortoise stew, and so he graced her with a magnitude of precious gifts.[8] He then consulted Delphi before attacking Persia, and according to Herodotus was advised, "If you cross the river, a great empire will be destroyed." Believing the response favorable, Croesus attacked, but it was his own empire that ultimately was destroyed by the Persians.
She allegedly also proclaimed Socrates to be the wisest man in Greece, to which Socrates said that, if so, this was because he alone was aware of his own ignorance. After this confrontation, Socrates dedicated his life to a search for knowledge that was one of the founding events of western philosophy. He claimed that she was "an essential guide to personal and state development."[9] This Oracle's last recorded response was given in 393 AD, when the emperor Theodosius I ordered pagan temples to cease operation.[citation needed]
The oracle's powers were highly sought after and never doubted. Any inconsistencies between prophecies and events were dismissed as failure to correctly interpret the responses, not an error of the oracle.[10] Very often prophecies were worded ambiguously, so as to cover all contingencies - especially so ex post facto. One famous such response to a query about participation in a military campaign was "You will go you will return never in war will you perish". This gives the recipient liberty to place a comma before or after the word "never", thus covering both possible outcomes. Another was the response to the Athenians when the vast army of king Xerxes I was approaching Athens with the intent of razing the city to the ground. "Only the wooden palisades may save you"[citation needed], answered the oracle, probably aware that there was sentiment for sailing to the safety of southern Italy and reestablishing Athens there. Some thought that it was a recommendation to fortify the Acropolis with a wooden fence and make a stand there. Others, Themistocles among them, said the oracle was clearly for fighting at sea, the metaphor intended to mean war ships. Others still insisted that their case was so hopeless that they should board every ship available and flee to Italy, where they would be safe beyond any doubt. In the event, variations of all three interpretations were attempted: some barricaded the Acropolis, the civilian population was evacuated over sea to nearby Salamis Island and to Troizen, and the war fleet fought victoriously at Salamis Bay. Should utter destruction have happened, it could always be claimed that the oracle had called for fleeing to Italy after all.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
Someone wisely said something ;ike, "Before fooling with a fool, make sure the fool is a fool."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by frako, posted 05-11-2012 7:11 PM frako has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by crashfrog, posted 05-12-2012 9:37 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 98 by frako, posted 05-12-2012 12:11 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
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