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Author Topic:   Applying Ocam's Razor To BB vs Biblical ID Creationism and EvC
Panda
Member (Idle past 3734 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 2 of 38 (662908)
05-19-2012 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Buzsaw
05-19-2012 3:36 PM


First law of thermodynamics:
quote:
The change in the internal energy of a closed system is equal to the amount of heat supplied to the system, minus the amount of work performed by the system on its surroundings. The law of conservation of energy can be stated: The energy of an isolated system is constant.
BS writes:
1. According to 1LoT, the Universe is infinite in time, including it's constant unchanging amount of energy.
The 1LoT does not mention the universe nor how long it has existed.
BS writes:
2. According to Genesis one and the Biblical record, the infinite Biblical god, Jehovah who resides in the cosmos of the Universe resides in an infinite time Universe, having infinite stable amount of energy, as per 1LoT, which eminates from him, ever changing form.
1LoT does not mention anything about infinite amounts of energy.
BS writes:
3. As is most commonly (I say, commonly) observed, physically, chaos does not spontaniously progress into order by natural means void of ID. Barns do not emerge from forests to structures, books, void of ID. Chaotic iron ore does not emerge naturally into forged tools, etc
Crystals.
You've been told this before.

Tradition and heritage are all dead people's baggage. Stop carrying it!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Buzsaw, posted 05-19-2012 3:36 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3734 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 10 of 38 (662916)
05-19-2012 9:01 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Buzsaw
05-19-2012 6:31 PM


Re: Pertaining To 1LoT
BS writes:
The closed infinite time and space system is one of unbounded space, space having no visible properties capable of bounding space. Thus it has no surroundings.
Which 1LoT does not mention.
BS writes:
Again, Ocam's Razor would apply, due to the fact that no space bounds can be physically observed or falsified.
Wrong.
As with the 1LoT, you have intentionally misrepresented Occam's Razor.
You are simply wishing away any facts that contradict your view of the world.
By your logic: the universe was created by god - because it is a simpler explanation than the Big Bang Theory.
But also by your logic: this forum was created by god - because it is a simpler explanation than Percy writing it in php.
And also by your logic: god took a shit in my toilet - because it is a simpler explanation than food getting consumed and digested and then defecated by me.
I also note that you still can't bring yourself to address your stupid comments about chaotic systems never creating order.
That probably means that we will have to continue saying "Crystals!" to you.
Jeez. Even a goldfish can learn quicker than you.

Tradition and heritage are all dead people's baggage. Stop carrying it!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Buzsaw, posted 05-19-2012 6:31 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Buzsaw, posted 05-19-2012 9:40 PM Panda has replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3734 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 12 of 38 (662918)
05-19-2012 9:02 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Buzsaw
05-19-2012 8:56 PM


Re: Applying Dimensions
BS writes:
There you go again, tipically applying a 2D model to a 3D system.
Spheres are 2D?
There are a lot of sportsmen who would disagree with you...

Tradition and heritage are all dead people's baggage. Stop carrying it!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Buzsaw, posted 05-19-2012 8:56 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by NoNukes, posted 05-19-2012 9:37 PM Panda has replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3734 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 16 of 38 (662922)
05-19-2012 9:45 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by NoNukes
05-19-2012 9:37 PM


Re: Applying Dimensions
NoNukes writes:
I'd give Buzsaw most of the credit on this question. It is only the surface of the sphere that is relevant, and that surface is a 2D space.
But I wouldn't give him credit.
He is only able to say that CF's sphere is 2D by not understanding CF's example.
Surely that means that Buz is talking about a 3D sphere - like a football?
NoNukes writes:
Buzsaw fails to get full credit because he refused to note that a 2 sphere is simply an analogy for the topology of the universe.
"Refused to note" or "fails to understand"?
I am going with the latter.
He still denies the existence of crystals, ffs!
{abe}
I have just read your edit, and I thank you for your best wishes...We will need them!
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

Tradition and heritage are all dead people's baggage. Stop carrying it!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by NoNukes, posted 05-19-2012 9:37 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3734 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 17 of 38 (662923)
05-19-2012 9:46 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Buzsaw
05-19-2012 9:40 PM


Re: Pertaining To 1LoT
I also note that you still can't bring yourself to address your stupid comments about chaotic systems never creating order.
That probably means that we will have to continue saying "Crystals!" to you.
CRYSTALS!!
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

Tradition and heritage are all dead people's baggage. Stop carrying it!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Buzsaw, posted 05-19-2012 9:40 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3734 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 19 of 38 (662925)
05-19-2012 9:52 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Buzsaw
05-19-2012 9:40 PM


Re: Pertaining To 1LoT
Buzsaw writes:
No, Panda. Infinite systems are never created.
So - the universe was not created.
Is that what you meant to say?
Buzsaw writes:
The energy in the Universe changes forms as work is applied, Wonderfully designed complex closed systems within it are created and/or destroyed by the intelligent designer of them, the working designer being the Biblical god, Jehovah, the majestic manager of the Universe.
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence."
And no, neither 1LoT nor Occam's Razor mentions an intelligent designer.
Well, we seemed to have moved away from your first post.
So, in an attempt to move us back:
CRYSTALS!!!
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

Tradition and heritage are all dead people's baggage. Stop carrying it!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Buzsaw, posted 05-19-2012 9:40 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Buzsaw, posted 05-19-2012 10:19 PM Panda has replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3734 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 26 of 38 (662932)
05-20-2012 5:37 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Buzsaw
05-19-2012 10:19 PM


Re: Pertaining To 1LoT
BS writes:
Go back and read carefully. You will note that I emphasied BY AND LARGE
Those are weasel words.
quote:
A weasel word is an informal term for equivocating words and phrases aimed at creating an impression that something specific and meaningful has been said, when in fact only a vague or ambiguous claim, or even a refutation has been communicated. (wiki)
As crashfrog has said, you are just sweeping all the masses of counter-evidence 'under the rug' by using ambiguous terms; hoping no one will notice.
CRYSTALS!!!

Tradition and heritage are all dead people's baggage. Stop carrying it!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Buzsaw, posted 05-19-2012 10:19 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Buzsaw, posted 05-20-2012 6:24 AM Panda has replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3734 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 28 of 38 (662934)
05-20-2012 7:09 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Buzsaw
05-20-2012 6:24 AM


Re: Pertaining To 1LoT
BS writes:
Panda, stop trolling my thread. Either poop or get off the pot.
I am not trolling.
And there is more than enough poop from you - I don't need to contribute more.
Perhaps you could try to support your claims?
Try again:
BS writes:
Go back and read carefully. You will note that I emphasied BY AND LARGE
Those (i.e. "BY AND LARGE") are weasel words.
quote:
A weasel word is an informal term for equivocating words and phrases aimed at creating an impression that something specific and meaningful has been said, when in fact only a vague or ambiguous claim, or even a refutation has been communicated. (wiki)
As crashfrog has said, you are just sweeping all the masses of counter-evidence 'under the rug' by using ambiguous terms; hoping no one will notice.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

CRYSTALS!!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Buzsaw, posted 05-20-2012 6:24 AM Buzsaw has seen this message but not replied

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