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Author Topic:   General Discussion Of Moderation Procedures (aka 'The Whine List')
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 436 of 1049 (663044)
05-20-2012 10:28 PM
Reply to: Message 433 by crashfrog
05-20-2012 8:14 PM


Re: Buz's Occam's Razor topic
y not having any evidence for any of his positions? How on Earth does that make him different than all the other creationists? How does that make him even in the least bit different? That's par for the course, but Buz is the only one whose participation is under such extreme constraint.
Again, Buzsaw's treatment is different, but the treatment is earned in my view. Further, the science threads Buzsaw participates in don't make this forum look any better either. Every single one of them turns into a dogpile of justly deserved ridicule. It creates the impression that EvC is just a place where the evolution supporting buzzards feast on weak creationist prey.
In any event, Percy has seen fit to allow the discussion in Free for all. Let's see if the evolution side can discuss Occam's razor with Buzsaw in a manner that brings credit to all involved. I personally won't be joining the discussion.
And it's not just Buz who is under the contraint; the rest of us are constrained from talking about science in any thread Buz chooses to start.
You are free to restart any thread Buz chooses to start. But without Buz himself, those threads probably won't be much fun. I suspect that it is actually giving Buzsaw a butt kicking that you are really looking forward to.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

This message is a reply to:
 Message 433 by crashfrog, posted 05-20-2012 8:14 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
Bolder-dash
Member (Idle past 3630 days)
Posts: 983
From: China
Joined: 11-14-2009


Message 437 of 1049 (663045)
05-20-2012 10:32 PM
Reply to: Message 435 by Coyote
05-20-2012 10:25 PM


Re: Don't be naive
Coyote,
I won't debate you here, because I now know this isn't a debate site, its a propaganda site. But thank you for confirming the notion that you don't want it debated either. I think one of the main reasons why your side doesn't want to debate it is precisely because they lack the evidence, so every time they debate it, they become stuck trying to hide from that fact.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 435 by Coyote, posted 05-20-2012 10:25 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 438 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-20-2012 10:33 PM Bolder-dash has not replied
 Message 439 by Coyote, posted 05-20-2012 10:57 PM Bolder-dash has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 438 of 1049 (663046)
05-20-2012 10:33 PM
Reply to: Message 437 by Bolder-dash
05-20-2012 10:32 PM


Re: Don't be naive
I won't debate [...] your side doesn't want to debate
Methinks the creationist doth project too much.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 437 by Bolder-dash, posted 05-20-2012 10:32 PM Bolder-dash has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(3)
Message 439 of 1049 (663049)
05-20-2012 10:57 PM
Reply to: Message 437 by Bolder-dash
05-20-2012 10:32 PM


Re: Don't be naive
I won't debate you here, because I now know this isn't a debate site, its a propaganda site. But thank you for confirming the notion that you don't want it debated either. I think one of the main reasons why your side doesn't want to debate it is precisely because they lack the evidence, so every time they debate it, they become stuck trying to hide from that fact.
Here are a few of the journals in which the evolution debate is carried out:
American Journal of Human Biology
American Journal of Human Genetics
American Journal of Physical Anthropology
The Anatomical Record Part A
Annals of Human Biology
Annals of Human Genetics
Annual Review of Genomics and Human Genetics
Anthropological Science
Anthropologie
L' Anthropologie
Archaeometry
Behavior Genetics
Behavioral Ecology and Sociobiology
Biological Psychology
Biology and Philosophy
BMC Evolutionary Biology
Current Anthropology
Current Biology
Economics and Human Biology
Ethnic and Racial Studies
European Journal of Human Genetics
Evolution and Human Behavior
Evolutionary Anthropology
Forensic Science International
Gene
Genetical Research
Genetics
Genome Research
Heredity
Homo
Human Biology
Human Heredity
Human Genetics
Human Genomics
Human Molecular Genetics
Human Mutation
International Journal of Osteoarchaeology
Journal of Anthropological Archaeology
Journal of Archaeological Science
Journal of Biosocial Science
Journal of Ethnic and Migration Studies
Journal of Human Evolution
Journal of Human Genetics
Journal of Molecular Evolution
Journal of the Royal Anthropological Institute
Molecular Biology and Evolution
Molecular Phylogenetics and Evolution
Nature
Nature Genetics
Nature Reviews Genetics
PLoS Biology
PLoS Genetics
Proceedings of The Royal Society: Biological Sciences
Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences
Russian Journal of Genetics
Science
Trends in Genetics
And here are the articles appearing in the April issue of American Journal of Physical Anthropology. This journal appears monthly.
  • New craniodental material of Pronothodectes gaoi Fox (Mammalia, Plesiadapiformes) and relationships among members of Plesiadapidae (pages 511—550)
  • Dental microwear texture and anthropoid diets (pages 551—579)
  • Gait selection and the ontogeny of quadrupedal walking in squirrel monkeys (Saimiri boliviensis) (pages 580—592)
  • Craniodental features in male Mandrillus may signal size and fitness: An allometric approach (pages 593—603)
  • Early pleistocene human humeri from the gran dolina-TD6 site (sierra de atapuerca, spain) (pages 604—617)
  • The relationship between musculoskeletal stress markers and biomechanical properties of the humeral diaphysis (pages 618—628)
  • Skeletal development in Pan paniscus with comparisons to Pan troglodytes (pages 629—636)
  • Incremental enamel development in modern human deciduous anterior teeth (pages 637—651)
  • Fitness-related benefits of dominance in primates (pages 652—660)
  • Sexual dimorphism in skeletal browridge and chin morphologies determined using a new quantitative method (pages 661—670)
So where is the lack of evidence you claim?
I would put scientific evidence up against the vacuous nonsense that you post any time.
-----------
I realize this is off topic here. No further responses will be made on this thread.
Edited by Coyote, : Off topic note

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 437 by Bolder-dash, posted 05-20-2012 10:32 PM Bolder-dash has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 440 by Bolder-dash, posted 05-20-2012 11:32 PM Coyote has seen this message but not replied

  
Bolder-dash
Member (Idle past 3630 days)
Posts: 983
From: China
Joined: 11-14-2009


Message 440 of 1049 (663050)
05-20-2012 11:32 PM
Reply to: Message 439 by Coyote
05-20-2012 10:57 PM


Re: Don't be naive
Well, I can see more and more why you side likes to hide from real debate on the subject. Because its just so much easier to hide behind the name of a journal and call that evidence, or talk about dental microwear texture and anthropoid diets and say this proves evolution, than actually being called on your bluffs.
Perhaps Percy's strategy does make the most sense, don't allow debate allow propaganda. He has a lot in common with wikipedia.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 439 by Coyote, posted 05-20-2012 10:57 PM Coyote has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 441 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-21-2012 12:06 AM Bolder-dash has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 441 of 1049 (663051)
05-21-2012 12:06 AM
Reply to: Message 440 by Bolder-dash
05-20-2012 11:32 PM


Re: Don't be naive
Since the moderators allow you to whine and blub about the moderators, it seems to me that a fortiori they would have no problem with you whining and blubbing about (for example) the fossil record. Why don't you give it a try?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 440 by Bolder-dash, posted 05-20-2012 11:32 PM Bolder-dash has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 442 by Bolder-dash, posted 05-21-2012 12:16 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Bolder-dash
Member (Idle past 3630 days)
Posts: 983
From: China
Joined: 11-14-2009


Message 442 of 1049 (663052)
05-21-2012 12:16 AM
Reply to: Message 441 by Dr Adequate
05-21-2012 12:06 AM


Re: Don't be naive
Oh don't worry, they will find a way to ban me for this too. They just have to figure out how to do it and still make appearances of fairness for the fence sitters. Its a tricky line, that many dictators also struggle with. Like when Russia had to figure out how to close the independent TV stations but still claim they will continue to broadcast "real news". You know, like stories of Putin saving little kids from burning buildings, things like that.
Or when Percy assigns PD as a moderator and calls that objectivity. Or when he allows you to post anything, and says its to counter balance all the negativity from the creationists.
You know Aung San Suu Kyi is no longer in jail. You certainly can't claim the Myanmar regime isn't fair now, can you?
I think Percy actually learned his trade from Fox News. You know if you just repeat that you are fair and balanced enough, and you occasionally allow a black man on your network, or use Mary Matalin to counter balance Ann Coulter, you can get a few people to actually believe you are being objective. But I wouldn't recommend it as a good venue for a Presidential debate if you want to get to the truth.
Edited by Bolder-dash, : No reason given.
Edited by Bolder-dash, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 441 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-21-2012 12:06 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 447 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-21-2012 8:06 AM Bolder-dash has replied

  
Bolder-dash
Member (Idle past 3630 days)
Posts: 983
From: China
Joined: 11-14-2009


Message 443 of 1049 (663054)
05-21-2012 12:35 AM


short leash
Let's face it, if this truly were a fair place to discuss ideas, why would I be on a "short leash" as Percy calls it, more than say Dr. A. Some people are on short leashes here? Guess who all those people are? Oh they just happen to be creationists, bingo! And Aung San Suu Kyi was never put under house arrest because of her calls for democracy. It was because she was inciting violence. Or maybe she was off topic in her discussions!
Life is just full of coincidences isn't it? But its fair and balanced, belief me, its fair and balanced. Our motto is fair and balanced. Believe us yet?

Replies to this message:
 Message 449 by NoNukes, posted 05-21-2012 9:25 AM Bolder-dash has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 444 of 1049 (663069)
05-21-2012 7:21 AM
Reply to: Message 434 by Bolder-dash
05-20-2012 10:14 PM


Re: Don't be naive
You are writing this as if you believe that EvC actually wants a fair discussion of the topic of evolution.
Well, I do believe that. But you're right, it gets harder to believe when moderators don't treat creationists fairly, when they're not given the same latitude given to evolutionists because they're not as entertaining in their invective.
The issue I'm trying to point out is that it's going to be very easy for everybody here to tell you you're wrong about the forum, but how are they going to be able to show you? The issue is that the moderators believe that it's so readily apparent that they're trying to cultivate fair dialogue that who on Earth could possibly doubt it?
Moderator acts such as those under discussion make it very easy to think the worst about EvC's moderation, particularly if you have no particular reason to be on their side.
My last warning was because I responded back to Dr. A in the same way he responds to everyone, even pointing out the hypocrisy of the software that allows him to use words like i d i o t, but doesn't allow creationists, supposedly like me to use.
Yeah, that's exactly right. The truth is, Dr. A gets away with a lot more because he's funnier and more entertaining. You probably could, too, if you'd cultivate more of a sense of humor.
Virtually every creationist that has ever posted here has said the reason they do so little anymore, is because it became obvious that the moderation was completely unfair, and intentionally so.
Sure. I agree that this is what they largely said, and we should listen. And moderators should know that their actions - even if not with the intention of suppressing debate - are the cause of much of this belief among creationists. Percy and many of his defenders would like us to believe that the creationists would think that anyway, no matter what the moderation was like, but that obviously can't be the case - there was a time when EvC Forum had a reputation even among creationists for being a site welcoming of, and respectful to, the other side of the debate.
At some point, Bolder, I'll give you a list of evolutionist participants whom the moderation of EvC has driven away. I was one of them, for a while.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 434 by Bolder-dash, posted 05-20-2012 10:14 PM Bolder-dash has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 445 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-21-2012 7:56 AM crashfrog has replied
 Message 446 by Bolder-dash, posted 05-21-2012 7:58 AM crashfrog has not replied
 Message 476 by foreveryoung, posted 05-24-2012 12:13 AM crashfrog has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 445 of 1049 (663072)
05-21-2012 7:56 AM
Reply to: Message 444 by crashfrog
05-21-2012 7:21 AM


Re: Don't be naive
The issue I'm trying to point out is that it's going to be very easy for everybody here to tell you you're wrong about the forum, but how are they going to be able to show you?
He could man up and discuss something substantive.
I mean, he could in principle.
You know, hypothetically. In an alternate universe. If he was someone else.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 444 by crashfrog, posted 05-21-2012 7:21 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 451 by crashfrog, posted 05-21-2012 10:39 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Bolder-dash
Member (Idle past 3630 days)
Posts: 983
From: China
Joined: 11-14-2009


Message 446 of 1049 (663073)
05-21-2012 7:58 AM
Reply to: Message 444 by crashfrog
05-21-2012 7:21 AM


Re: Don't be naive
The truth is, Dr. A gets away with a lot more because he's funnier and more entertaining.
Sorry, we must be talking about two different people. I was talking about Dr. Adequate.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 444 by crashfrog, posted 05-21-2012 7:21 AM crashfrog has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(2)
Message 447 of 1049 (663074)
05-21-2012 8:06 AM
Reply to: Message 442 by Bolder-dash
05-21-2012 12:16 AM


Re: Don't be naive
Oh don't worry, they will find a way to ban me for this too.
Really? You've been peddling this exact brand of pusillanimous nonsense since last May, when you started a thread to describe them as "foul" and "severely biased", and so far from banning you they promoted it for discussion.
So if they let you make direct personal attacks on them, and have been putting up for this for a year or more, then I think they'd also let you snivel out some nonsense actually germane to evolution or creationism; and I think that if you're not completely gutless you might give that a try.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 442 by Bolder-dash, posted 05-21-2012 12:16 AM Bolder-dash has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 448 by Bolder-dash, posted 05-21-2012 9:09 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Bolder-dash
Member (Idle past 3630 days)
Posts: 983
From: China
Joined: 11-14-2009


Message 448 of 1049 (663075)
05-21-2012 9:09 AM
Reply to: Message 447 by Dr Adequate
05-21-2012 8:06 AM


Re: Don't be naive
Sure A anytime, just tell me which debate website you would like to debate on. If you are man enough that is.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 447 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-21-2012 8:06 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 453 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-21-2012 10:59 AM Bolder-dash has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 449 of 1049 (663077)
05-21-2012 9:25 AM
Reply to: Message 443 by Bolder-dash
05-21-2012 12:35 AM


Re: short leash
Life is just full of coincidences isn't it? But its fair and balanced, belief me, its fair and balanced. Our motto is fair and balanced. Believe us yet?
We know that you no longer have any interest in debate here. Your recent posting history is that you complain about your past treatment and that you escalate the abuse in your messages until you get banned for yet another long period of time. Given that reality, exactly how long a leash should you be on?
You've been able to maintain a fairly mild demeanor for at least a week this time. Perhaps you will manage to stay for a longer time while not participating in any debate whatsoever.
But you aren't going to debate. That's pretty evident by now.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

This message is a reply to:
 Message 443 by Bolder-dash, posted 05-21-2012 12:35 AM Bolder-dash has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 450 by Bolder-dash, posted 05-21-2012 9:48 AM NoNukes has replied

  
Bolder-dash
Member (Idle past 3630 days)
Posts: 983
From: China
Joined: 11-14-2009


(1)
Message 450 of 1049 (663080)
05-21-2012 9:48 AM
Reply to: Message 449 by NoNukes
05-21-2012 9:25 AM


Re: short leash
Your recent posting history is that you complain about your past treatment and that you escalate the abuse in your messages until you get banned for yet another long period of time.
I thought people didn't get banned for here for being abusive. I thought if people took offense to abusive posters, it is because they are just too thin skinned, just ask Granny. Even Percy has said that is understandable and reasonable that sometimes people will be abusive, because they are so frustrated.
Or just creationists get banned for being abusive, but still the reason they don't participate is not because of bad moderation.
Do you have any evidence of any evolutionists being banned for a month being off topic? That would be weird wouldn't it.
So what am I on a short leash for? Who else is on a short leash? Theoderic? Dr. A? What they do is called debating? Who says?
Its just another coincidence that all the so called abusive posters are creationists? This thread is about the moderation-so isn't that what I should discuss here. I am on a short leash for one reason and one reason only, because I called bs to Percy's policies. You know and everyone here knows it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 449 by NoNukes, posted 05-21-2012 9:25 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 452 by Granny Magda, posted 05-21-2012 10:49 AM Bolder-dash has not replied
 Message 455 by NoNukes, posted 05-21-2012 11:09 AM Bolder-dash has replied

  
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