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Author | Topic: Did Dinosaurs live with man? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Artemis Entreri  Suspended Member (Idle past 4254 days) Posts: 1194 From: Northern Virginia Joined: |
Arachnophillia writes: it really is, yeah. but they're getting better! the ones in the 80's were particularly bad, because the whole "birds are dinosaurs" thing hadn't really hit the popular culture yet. even though jurassic park showed a bunch of plucked and naked dromaeosaurs running around, it was still largely responsible for bring this idea into the public consciousness. So how many Jurassic Dinos had feathers? Did the T-rex?
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 309 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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So how many Jurassic Dinos had feathers? Did the T-rex? Quite possibly. The question that fascinates me is whether they sang. Movies have them roaring like lions, but why should they? Reptiles don't do that. But birds sing, couldn't that have been basal in dinosaurs? (IIRC, baby crocodiles make "cheep" noises just like baby birds, and they're archosaurs, so ...) I imagine, though I may be wrong in this, that the larger dinosaurs would have had deeper voices. Imagine the "dawn chorus" in the Cretaceous period as the ceratopians and stegosaurs began to boom forth their ponderous oratorios ... I don't know if this is the sort of thing we could ever be in a position to find out, but I like to think about it. Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Hi Dr Adequate
Aren't there some dinosaurs with trumpet-like chambers that have been hypothesized as noise-makers? Page not found - The Dinosaurs Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : No reason given.by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Artemis Entreri  Suspended Member (Idle past 4254 days) Posts: 1194 From: Northern Virginia Joined: |
The question that fascinates me is whether they sang. Movies have them roaring like lions, but why should they? Reptiles don't do that. But birds sing, couldn't that have been basal in dinosaurs? (IIRC, baby crocodiles make "cheep" noises just like baby birds, and they're archosaurs, so ...) I imagine, though I may be wrong in this, that the larger dinosaurs would have had deeper voices. Imagine the "dawn chorus" in the Cretaceous period as the ceratopians and stegosaurs began to boom forth their ponderous oratorios ... I don't know if this is the sort of thing we could ever be in a position to find out, but I like to think about it. i don't know. many prey species are quiet, but birds are all pretty darn loud.
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jar Member (Idle past 419 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
So are frogs, many insects, cattle, sheep, goats, bison, elk...
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 760 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
The question that fascinates me is whether they sang. Did they sing? Duh!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsKO_r76kfQ I apologise for any cerebral hemorrages caused by clicking that link.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1369 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined:
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Artemis Entreri writes: For example this is my local museum (also the national museum): Paleobiology | Smithsonian National Museum of Natural History It is the Smithsonian, it’s in Washington D,C. on the mall, a couple blocks from the white house, It’s the museum I go to, to see exhibits, and where I go when I want to see Dinosaurs. If you follow the link there are two kinds of animals on the opening homepage. i see the following:
quote: i believe if you look through the dinosaur type specimens listing, they'll all be dinosaurs. but i haven't checked.
I must admit, I never really checked their facts I just said ok, this is the dinosaur exhibit, some flew, some swam, some had huge fins on their backs, most were big. yeah, unless you're reading closely, you'll probably never notice that they've thrown in a bunch of not-dinosaurs because they look cool.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1369 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
Artemis Entreri writes: So how many Jurassic Dinos had feathers? Did the T-rex? well, tyrannosaurus rex was a cretaceous dinosaur. they lived pretty much right before the KT event (the extinction of the non-avian dinosaurs at the end of the cretaceous). and it's unknown whether or not they were feathered. it's known, however, that earlier tyrannosaurs had simple feathers. so if t. rex did not have feathers, they were probably lost secondarily. many large animals don't need extra structures like feather or fur or hair to help keep them warm, depending on their environment. think elephants (africa and india) vs woolly mammoths.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2131 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
Feathers or not, dinos didn't live at the same time man did.
Minor discrepancy of ca. 65 million years.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1369 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
birds are dinosaurs, so, yes they do.
Edited by arachnophilia, : No reason given.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2131 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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Don't pick nits, it's unbecoming. And you'll just confuse the creationists.
Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1369 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined:
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Coyote writes: Don't pick nits, it's unbecoming. it's not a nitpick. it's not a technicality. it's a fact. birds are dinosaurs the same way that coyotes are mammals, or people are primates.
And you'll just confuse the creationists. well, yes, probably. but then again if creationists weren't confused by biology, they wouldn't be creationists. so i see no point in giving out incorrect information just to suit them. nor do i see any point in following their lead, and letting them define the discussion, based on their inaccurate assumptions. rather, it's better to go back and redefine the debate using the correct terms, explaining along the way what dinosaurs actually are. see the above discussion with artemis. the fact that birds are dinosaurs is very strongly established, and the avian family tree is chock full of transitional forms. it's quite an compelling example of evolution in action, as you can trace dinosaurian evolution from basal archosaurs (which were more similar to crocodilians) to modern birds, in a pretty clear and obvious way. Edited by arachnophilia, : No reason given.
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caffeine Member (Idle past 1049 days) Posts: 1800 From: Prague, Czech Republic Joined:
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So how many Jurassic Dinos had feathers? Did the T-rex? The small relatives of T. Rexes had feathers, but skin impressions from big Tyrannosaurids show that they had scaly skin at least over part of their bodies; with no sign of feathers. They probably lost their feathers when they got big for the same reasons that elephants have very little hair - big animals retain more heat, so a big, feathered T. Rex might have overheated. However, while most of the body would be naked, there's no reason that a T. Rex couldn't have some feathers, perhaps for display. I like the idea of a giant, predatory dinosaur with a big fancy crest of feathers to impress the ladies. It's also possible that the babies were born covered in fluffy feathers that fell out when they got big.
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MiguelG Member (Idle past 2001 days) Posts: 63 From: Australia Joined: |
Just to put my 2 cents worth in, I'd like to just summarise an answer to the question of this thread for Creationists.
Question : "Did dinosaurs live with man?". The way most creationists and general members of the public will translate this question in their minds would probably be : "Did modern humans (H. sapiens) live during the Mesozoic era? (the era that was dominated by the dinosaurs - that is occupying most of the tetrapod ecological niches of the time. The short answer to this is No, modern humans or even hominims, did not live at the same time as dinosaurs during the Mesozoic. However, a qualification should be added : It is generally accepted by most biologists, ornithologists and palaeontologists today that birds (called Avialae in scientific parlance) are a sub-group within the clade Dinosauria which are all grouped under the Class Reptilia. Given that modern birds (Avialae) are considered to be Dinosaurs, then we can say that dinosaurs have been living with H. sapiens (modern humans) since humans originated in Africa approximately 200,000 years ago.
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GrimSqueaker Member (Idle past 3713 days) Posts: 137 From: Ireland Joined: |
I am being a little hasty in reply and I haven't fully read the thread yet, so I am sorry if this point is moot.
I have to ask do u think Tolkien met living examples of Homo floresiensis (the race lovingly refereed to as Hobbits by modern scientists)? Mythology and story telling are wonderful, and many bizarre and beautiful creatures have been spawned from human imaginations - but as they say any similarity to people(creatures) living or dead is purely coincidental I should also add why would existng dinosaurs affect our understanding of evolution at all? It'd be cool to imagine Dinosaurs VS Cavemen like in an old B-Movie but it wouldn't change Evolutionary theory one jot - although there would be quite a few red faced palaeontologists. If there is a chain of logic linking Dinosuars => No Evolution I'm afraid it eludes me R u expecting to find fossilised Griffons, Hydras, unicorns, cthulhu, centaurs, goblins, orks, elves, the StayPuffed MarshmellowMan, etc Even if there is a link between fossils and dragon lore it is simpler to suggest that the fossils inspired the stories similar to how elephant remains inspired stories of the cyclops Edited by GrimSqueaker, : No reason given.
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