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Author Topic:   Physical Laws ....What if they were different before?
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 175 of 309 (664336)
05-31-2012 9:00 AM
Reply to: Message 173 by foreveryoung
05-31-2012 1:49 AM


Re: question unanswered ...
And if the duration of the periods of the ground state of cesium133 changed
Why would this even be relevant? The second was not defined in that way until recently. Let's not confuse stable units with stable or changing lengths or physical constants.
In any event, the problem I see with your changing constants is that you want most stuff to have continued pretty much as normal, but allowing a few things in the Bible that don't correspond with current observations and physics to be correct. If you want to convince anyone that such a thing is possible, the best way to do that would be to provide a set of constants and to explain how it would work. Cherry picking just a couple constants and leaving us to consider the rest won't cut it. I suspect that at least some of the changed constants arguments will be contradictory. That is, you'll want the mass of a proton (for example) to be large for one reason and smaller for a different one.
The other problem is that we have observational evidence that some of the constants have not changed to hundreds of thousands of years, and in some cases hundreds of millions of years.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by foreveryoung, posted 05-31-2012 1:49 AM foreveryoung has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(4)
Message 204 of 309 (664771)
06-05-2012 1:55 AM
Reply to: Message 201 by godsriddle
06-05-2012 12:26 AM


Re: SN1987A part 1 - still on the baby step.
Parallax is useful for measuring the distance to nearby objects. For example, the distance to Venus during the 2004 transit was much larger than the canonical value measured using atomic clocks.
Well don't keep us in suspense. What were the two values for the distance to Venus?
By the way the last chance in any of our lifetimes to see Venus transit the sun will occur later today. The next transit will be in 2117.
Please don't stare directly into the sun (or through the unprotected eye piece of a telescope) trying to see this once in a lifetime event. And yes, there's a free Android and iOS App for this event. Search for 'Venus Transit'

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by godsriddle, posted 06-05-2012 12:26 AM godsriddle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 206 by foreveryoung, posted 06-05-2012 2:11 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied
 Message 209 by godsriddle, posted 06-05-2012 3:33 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 211 of 309 (664784)
06-05-2012 7:20 AM
Reply to: Message 205 by foreveryoung
06-05-2012 2:07 AM


Re: jeers
What is so terrible about message 187??????????????or 131?????
both have six jeers with basically the same people.
What was so terrible about message 204? Did I step on your toes?
Nevermind. I see you've elected to jeer everything in sight.
In any event. I normally don't jeer when I'm participating in a thread and this thread is no exception. You'll notice that I'm not one of those five or six. My guess about your message 131 is that use of the term "retarded" by somebody with well publicized self esteem problems probably earned you a jeer or two. Message 161 is just full of science denial. Nothing earth shattering there.
Okay, now would be the time to hit that jeer button again.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by foreveryoung, posted 06-05-2012 2:07 AM foreveryoung has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 212 of 309 (664786)
06-05-2012 8:03 AM
Reply to: Message 209 by godsriddle
06-05-2012 3:33 AM


Re: SN1987A part 1 - still on the baby step.
riddle me this writes:
IAU radar value 8.794143" (1972 - 149.6 million kilometers)
Parker Moreland using optical parallax to Mars at opposition (2003 -151.6 million kilometers)
Average value obtained during 2004 transit of Venus 8.53" (154.08 million kilometers).
1. The values quoted are for the earth-sun distance.
2. The are each only a few percent off from the accepted value of 149.6 million kilometers.
3. The methods for detecting exactly the transit start/stop times have well known issues and none of the values is outside of the expected error.
4. None of them represent measurements distances to Venus that are "much larger than the canonical value measured using atomic clocks." In fact many of the transit determined values are smaller.
http://spacemath.gsfc.nasa.gov/transits/TRACEvenus.html
5. You will say just about anything.
The Bible plainly states that the days and years of the son are shorter and worse than those from the fathers (gen 47:9).
People who are rational understand "shorter" to refer to the accumulated lifespans of the sons vs. their sires.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by godsriddle, posted 06-05-2012 3:33 AM godsriddle has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 218 of 309 (664806)
06-05-2012 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 213 by Taq
06-05-2012 11:00 AM


Re: SN1987A part 1 - still on the baby step.
No one said that there was a parallax measurement. Why don't you focus on the measurement that was made?
I've concluded that trying to reach riddle is hopeless. He's in his own private Idaho.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by Taq, posted 06-05-2012 11:00 AM Taq has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 255 of 309 (664880)
06-06-2012 10:12 AM
Reply to: Message 245 by foreveryoung
06-06-2012 2:47 AM


Re: SN1987A -- part 2: correlations with the speed of light
To me, the speed of light should be infinite in a true vacuum. Light from stars billions of light years away, should immediately be detected by radar telescopes the instant they leave the star in a true vacuum.
"To me [foreveryoung]"? Why should we care what you think the speed of light in a vacuum should be? You know next to nothing about the physics of electromagnetic radiation. Why would we even use a radar telescope to detect light?
We know that the speed of light in a vacuum is just a hair greater than the speed of light in air. We have experienced and measured the delay in E&M radiation travel to Venus, the moon, and to man made robot devices at distant places in the solar system. The evidence from SN1987 that the speed of light is finite at great distances from earth. Beyond, that we have Maxwell's equations that predict the theoretical speed of light in a vacuum, and guess what that predicted result is.
In summary: e=mc2 is not a problem with higher lightspeeds because the same reality that causes greater lightspeeds also causes lighter masses.
Well, given your claim that the speed of light is infinite "To me", then lighter masses is not much help here.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

This message is a reply to:
 Message 245 by foreveryoung, posted 06-06-2012 2:47 AM foreveryoung has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 263 of 309 (664902)
06-06-2012 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 246 by foreveryoung
06-06-2012 2:55 AM


Re: Speed of Light: the Sequel
The message engraved on the stones said that it was written by the creator of the universe and that the stone was part of the bedrock sitting underneath the soil from which adam, the first human, was created from.
Is there some part of the Bible that makes this kind of authorship claim?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by foreveryoung, posted 06-06-2012 2:55 AM foreveryoung has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 264 by foreveryoung, posted 06-06-2012 2:18 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 279 of 309 (664920)
06-06-2012 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 264 by foreveryoung
06-06-2012 2:18 PM


Re: Speed of Light: the Sequel
The bible is replete with God making claims to creation of the universe.
Sigh.
I asked you a question about authorship. Where in the Bible is there a claim that God wrote the Bible? When you talked about the message on the rock, you claimed that the message identified the creator of the universe as the author of the message on the rock?
I did not intend to ask you a trick question. You obtained the idea that the Bible is supernaturally accurate and written by God from somewhere. If that source is the Bible itself, I'd like you to point that out where the Bible says that.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

This message is a reply to:
 Message 264 by foreveryoung, posted 06-06-2012 2:18 PM foreveryoung has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 280 of 309 (664921)
06-06-2012 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 272 by foreveryoung
06-06-2012 2:52 PM


Plonk..
I hate anyone who treats me like all of you assholes do. I do not shut my mouth when it comes to a woman. She is treated on the same level as the rest of you.
To /dev/null with you.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

This message is a reply to:
 Message 272 by foreveryoung, posted 06-06-2012 2:52 PM foreveryoung has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 298 of 309 (665063)
06-07-2012 3:00 PM
Reply to: Message 291 by godsriddle
06-06-2012 9:03 PM


Re: question unanswered ...
In other words, the clocks from the past are generally clocking slower frequencies than the clocks from the present moment, except for a few local galaxies that are moving towards us (signals shifted by Doppler).
You claim that the spaceship clocks are acting like ancient clocks. But the problem with this is that the space ship clocks are not ancient clocks. Those clocks are essentially contemporary with the atomic clocks still on earth and their atoms are the same age as those on earth having once been on earth. Yet according to you, those atoms are operating differently and follow the Hubble distance law.
How do you escape the obvious conclusion that the difference in atomic frequency cannot be due to "old" atoms? Whether the effect is "stretched" space, velocity or gravitational doppler effect, or some other cause, your own description rules out the possibility that answer is absolutely decrepit atoms.
For that matter, what fixes the age of an atom anyway? Some of the distant stars we see are older than our own sun, but some of them are much younger, and at least the atoms of the metals in young large stars are of more recent vintage than the elements of some old stars. So what then could explain a Hubble law variation in red shift. By the reasoning above, the answer is clearly NOT the age of the atoms.
On earth, we have examples of new and old atoms for any isotope that is relatively long lived and that is also the product of some nuclear process such as decay, fission, neutron capture, etc. If you are correct, we should be able to detect differences between, for example, newly formed Pb 206 atoms and old, nearly 4.5 billion year old Pb 206 atoms.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

This message is a reply to:
 Message 291 by godsriddle, posted 06-06-2012 9:03 PM godsriddle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 300 by godsriddle, posted 06-07-2012 5:01 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
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