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Author | Topic: The Irrefutable Public Health Care Thread | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
onifre Member (Idle past 2976 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
That's not the reason. Yes it is.
quote: ...and for the most part it is unavoidable even for those who have lived a healthy lifestyle. You're a pretty smart dude, but that was some dumb shit right there. Cancer for the most part is unavoidable even for those with a healthy lifestyle? Wow!
From the American Cancer Society: quote: Obviously, it isn't because of the fatties. It's obvious to the experts that it is. - Oni
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onifre Member (Idle past 2976 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
Then you need to show that the gap between healthcare expenditures in the US and France is due to higher obesity rates in the US compared to France. You haven't done that yet. I don't have to do any of that. I just have to show you that we spend more per person on heathcare due to obesity...and I have. Now granted, it's not a black and white issue, there is some gray area. More on the subject here:
quote: Cancer risks increase with age. There is nothing new about this. Age is by far the leading risk factor. Nonsense! See link bellow.
On top of that, end of life care is by far the most expensive. From what I have heard, no one is immortal. Obesity Not Aging Balloons Health Care Costs quote: I don't know what else to show you to sway you that obesity is hurting our healthcare cost and NOT aging. Now, and more so, at an alarming rate, in the future. - Oni PS. I believe this is a Post of the Month, yes?
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onifre Member (Idle past 2976 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
So health is simply a matter of personal responsibility and nothing else as far as you are concerned? Yes, of course.
If everybody just applies some restraint and eats well and jogs and does situps then all will be well and healthcare won't be an issue at all - That is your position here right? I think I've proven well beyond a doubt that staying fit, eating well and exercising will reduce the overall cost of healthcare on ANY population. And will reduce the need for healthcare as they age - see the link in the post to Taq. Healthcare at that point will have it's normal issues, and not the nonsense that is happening now.
I am saying that there are better and more cost effective ways of providing healthcare than those presently in place in the US. But that these require a shift away from the current ideology. And I'm saying that if the shift happens - lowering the obesity rate - the healthcare system in the US will work just fine. As it is now, we are so unhealthy that they have us by the balls. Do you think Big Pharm wants healthy Americans not using their drugs? Of course not. We are so dependent on the drugs to live that the prices can by anything they want; we will pay or die. That puts them in control. Look at Taq's chart in message 10 - the US and Finland are off by about $2,500 (cost per capita). That difference CAN be reduced by lowering obesity putting our healthcare system at a cost per capita equal to that of a universal healthcare country. With even more effeorts on healthier living, there is no doubt we can equal the cost to that of Canada, or even France.
So - What do we do about that? And how can what needs doing be done without some form of publicly funded aspect of health provision? Reduce the obesity rate and the price per capita drops significantly. - Oni PS. Post of the Month, please.
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onifre Member (Idle past 2976 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
So on one hand you think that people will happily poison themselves as a result of the power of marketing but on the other hand all health problems can be waved away by simply telling people to ignore such things and show some personal restraint. Is that your (rather contradictory) position?
That's not my position. That is your spin on it. People will happily poison themselves, that is a fact, they do it everyday for breakfast, lunch and dinner. And snacks, lets not forget the snacks! Not all health problems of course, there is genetics and old age. But as I've shown reducing obesity will result in lower cost of healthcare per capita equal to that of countries with public healthcare. You can't tell people to do this, or ignore such things. All the government would have to do is render the sale of poison illegal.
OK. So how are you realistically going to do that? Me? I suggest yelling at the fatties.
Because I see public health provision as part of the answer to this problem whilst you don't seem to be offering anything other than the health equivalent of "Let's all love each other and bring about world peace". I don't see how it can be the answer to the problem when your country and those around you have an ever rising obesity rate. You have said public healthcare and even you guys can't stop the increase of obesity in your own population. So what you're suggesting we adopt is clearly failing you. Not much of a good example.
ho is going to objectively research and classify which foods are "harmful" if not publicly funded health bodies and research institutions? Sure that's fine. A government entity that tackles the problem. Hmmm, we already have that. There is already an agency that's supposed to do that. You see, we already have functioning systems, they've just failed us. So rather than fix them, the argument shifts to public healthcare as though that will be the savior. There is no accountability. It's just on to the next program. But as we can see for your contries that do have public healthcare, you guys can't stop the obesity rate either. And why have you guys increased in obesity? Because of fast food.
Didn't I earlier in this thread suggest a fat tax as a more realistic alterantive? Yes. And the fat tax has also failed in your countries to solve the ever increasing obesity rate. Any other suggestions?
Now you want the government to step in and determine which foods are legally healthy and which should be banned? Yes, I'm asking the already existing government agency that does this to do their fucking job. But they don't listen. - Oni Edited by onifre, : No reason given.
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onifre Member (Idle past 2976 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
Well have fun with that. I would but then you'd call it a hate crime.
Poison in this context being....? What exactly? Fat? Sugar? What? Haven't you heard what's in fast food? Fat and sugar are good for you, but those things as a natural product do NOT exist in fast food. It's processed garbage, with zero nutritional value. There's hydrogenated vegetable oil, saturated fats, gums, sugar substitutes, monosodium glutamate, high fructose corn syrup, hormone fed processed beef and eggs, hormone fed chicken, food coloring, preservatives, trans fats, etc. Just look at the ingredients for eggs at Mc Donalds. You would think it's just eggs, right?
quote: It's a poisonous cocktail.
Thirdly - There is some evidence available on this that suggests it might well change people's behaviour. I've read plenty to suggest it hasn't and ends up simply hurting the poor.
Could you be more specific about which government agency it is you mean and exactly what it is you think they are failing to do? US Food and Drug Administration As their moto goes: Protecting and Promoting Your Health Yeahhhh riggghhhhttttt!!! - Oni
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onifre Member (Idle past 2976 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
We have a for profit system that has no incentive to lower prices so that everyone can afford health care. Of course it's for profit... they profit from an unhealthy population. Where is the most unhealthy population in the world? The US is the most obese and has the most health problems. So then where would it make sense to have a for profit healthcare system? In the US if you're a business man. If the population began to get healthier, then there is less to profit from. At that point it would make sense to have a public healthcare system that is supported with taxes.
We are not paying 100% more than other countries because we have more fatties. Yes we are. As a whole the more obese, unhealthy people, who then grow old - living longer, unhealthier lives due to medicine (which is profited from) - make the system easy to profit from and a target for those looking to exploit it. - Oni
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onifre Member (Idle past 2976 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
How many times do I have to be right around here? Fatty Fat Fats are at it again, ruining the healthcare in the US like I said they would. God damn fatbodies.
Let me quote it:
quote: Coming soon to a Europe near you. I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so. I'll expect eveyone to concede in this thread soon. - Oni
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